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Why such a drastic difference between the four speakers in a 4x12 cab?

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by mrp, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. mrp

    mrp Active Member

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    From 23:48 on he compares the four speakers one by one with a 57 with astonishingly different results.

    I wonder if the weaker sounding speaker is even in a good working order.

    Is this a quality issue with Celestion nowadays or what? Aren't they supposed to sound more or less the same?

    And it clearly couldn't have been the issue of "not being broken in yet" as all four are in the same cab that must have gotten its fair share of studio use.

     
  2. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    This is pretty much normal. All speakers do not sound exactly the same. Speakers could have been replaced and/or are different ages which could make them sound different. Also, he didn't use a very precise way of positioning the mic. Having the mic just a tiny bit off at that position "Cap/Edge", even a 1/4" off can sound quite a bit different. A good recording engineer would have used a tape measure to make sure each mic placement was as accurate as can be. With a Marshall 4x12, all you have to do is measure it once....from then on, you should know :) I suspect this guy is a newbie in training?
     
  3. BUTTONTY

    BUTTONTY New Member

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    A newbie in training? No way, this guy is good. And using his ears. And yes you could use a measuring tape all day and everyone you record will have the same sweet spot from the same cabinet. He knows what sounds good, and what is usable for what he is recording, yes every 1/8th inch can make an entirely different sound, so that is the difference between every band he records sounding too similar( measuring tape and masking tape on grill after finding that sweet spot method) or somewhat ballpark mic set up and adjust to taste ( bands get a unique and different tone for their albums)
     
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  4. Headache

    Headache Well-Known Member

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    They all sound a little different.
    Even 2 of the line consecutively sound different.

    Just a touch off axis can make a world of microphonic difference.

    It's neat to find small nuances and differences in speakers and angles and whatnot. But in the final mix it doesn't make all that huge of a difference in my humble opinion. Flavors and tonal spectrums are fun to shoot for though.
     
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  5. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    I believe you missed my point. Using a tape measure is to get the exact same placement on each speaker to then check which one sounds the best for that particular session, not to use for every recording session.
     
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  6. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    In the high end audio world, it's common practice for every speaker to be individually characterized and sorted and sets made up that have matching characteristics. Some are rejected entirely for being too far out of spec.

    There are a LOT of variables that affect how a speaker sounds, and it's difficult or even impossible to control them all to a high degree of precision.

    We know GENERALLY what the Greenback sound is, but there's a lot of variation among Greenbacks, even ones made in the same batch on the same production line by the same people.
     
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  7. BUTTONTY

    BUTTONTY New Member

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    Yes, but I'm sure if he did that, he would have chosen the same speaker either way, the difference in tone with speaker placement is different than the " aliveness" he was looking for on that first test. The more dynamically alive speaker, moving more air at the cone to drive the dynamic mic. I'm not saying you don't know anything, but to say this guy doesn't know what he is talking about is a little out there...

    I mean, you also said " maybe a few of the speakers have been replaced" every cabinet ever has different sounding speakers. That's noob knowledge of you want to say he doesn't know his stuff, your response told everyone that you don't.
     
  8. Michael Roe

    Michael Roe Well-Known Member

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    Here at the Marshall forum we don't argue over people getting butt hurt. You are right sir, I have no idea what I am talking about :( You WIN!!!!
     
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  9. BatmansMarshall

    BatmansMarshall Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to imagine any other musical instrument with so much potential for variation along the chain than an analogue electric guitar rig. Maybe an analogue synthesizer rack.
     
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  10. mrp

    mrp Active Member

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    BTW they're using clip-on tuners on electric guitars in the studio - does it give an advantage over other tuner types, bar the analog stroboscope type?
     
  11. WellBurnTheSky

    WellBurnTheSky Well-Known Member

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    You'd be surprised. I put microphones in front of stuff for a living, and have worked with almost any instrument you can imagine. Electric, traditional, classical, from all over the world. And I can promise you, you treat each and every one of them as a unique case, because that's the way they are. Electronic keyboards actually being usually the easiest.
    But for instance, I've not encountered two double basses that actually sounded the same, sometimes dramatically so. Pianos ? Same deal. Even two otherwise identical Steinways can sound wildly different, not even accounting for different acoustic spaces. Violins ? Don't tell me about it.
    Hell, even two microphone capsules built on the same day can sound slightly different, and time, (ab)use and wear will only make these differences more obvious. There's a reason why you actually pay a premium for matched stereo pairs of micrpohones.

    And yeah, I've never encountered any cab where all speakers sound exactly the same. First thing you do before sticking a mic in front of them (unless you're in a hurry, which more often than not is the case) is actually listen and find out which one sounds the best. The older the cab is, the more dramatic the difference can be.
     
  12. uselessoldman

    uselessoldman Member

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    Say you have V30s 8 ohms. will they sound different if wired parallel (4 ohms a pair) or series (16 ohms) or with 2 pairs parallel and series (8ohms) or other way round?? Why should one speaker sound different in one cabinet than another if the mic used is the same and in the same position directly in front of the cone (slightly off center). Then there is the amp, does it like 16 ohms 8 or 4? A specific individual or pair of speakers can sound different subject to the signal chain its fed. BUt really when in a mix would that should that difference be noticable? After all the mic is right in front what if any other noise could it possibly pick up? Clearly if your stood say 30 ft in front you might possibly hear a difference, or a mic recording some room/ambience sounds but thats why you use that position/technique as you would behind.

    My point is with the same speaker with the exact same signal chain no matter what the cab if a mic is directly in front/off centre there should be NO difference. UNless the mic used is chosen to specifically pick up some ambience which is not what you want anyway and defeats the objective. Is the or should the difference between 4 "identical" speakers be so dramatic you would choose one over the other, answer is yes MAYBE you would, but then would you not just thrown away a bad speaker replace it with a better one?

    I used the V30 specifically cos from my own experience you can find one more dull, one more warm, one better (cleaner) the higher the frequency and some just a good all rounder. BUt really truthfully it is all subjective. A bad speaker is just that a bad speaker. That why I like mono stereo cabs, you can choose what speaker goes where and which to use for specific tasks/tastes and even how there wired. For a brighter sound run them at a higher ohms but you will some loose mid/bass ok for recording but maybe not what you want for playing live or just swap cable inputs use two amps into each mono channel for that different tone - really seriously its that different? No its not
     
  13. 5stringsdown

    5stringsdown Member

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    I worked in one of the big recording studios in nyc in the ‘80s........whenever we had a Marshall 4x12 (or any multiple speaker cab for that matter) the first thing we would do is listen to each speaker in that cab (via a mic) to see which driver sounded the best......and then record that speaker.
    They were never all identical sounding.
     
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  14. Brek

    Brek Active Member

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    Not mic’d up masses of cabs in my time as a sound engineer, but I did notice that if you move it a couple of inches the tone change is not subtle. A more robust methodology required.
     
  15. WellBurnTheSky

    WellBurnTheSky Well-Known Member

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    That's why many big touring acts use some kind of cab sim (or ISO cabs) for the PA and monitor feed (sometimes by themselves, sometimes blended with live mics), just because it gives them more consistency.
     

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