Why does the JVM get hate?!

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by giblesp, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. giblesp

    giblesp Well-Known Member

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    So I've seen a few members mention the JVM with disdain, and as the new owner of a JVM 205H, I'm wondering why.

    We can conclude most amps will have a hate club. But I mean, I sent a Jubilee back as it wasn't for me. I didn't hate it though, just didn't have enough gain for my needs.

    The JVM to me has weaknesses, it wouldn't be my first choice for 800 or Jubilee sounds. But for someone else it may be something else. The only reason I can see hate for this amp, is for players looking for a classic hard rock sound; Slash etc.

    If I was going for a Jubilee sound though, I'd have stuck with the Jubilee!

    Anyway, thoughts appreciated.
     
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  2. IOSEPHVS

    IOSEPHVS Well-Known Member

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    The digital reverb is a deal breaker for me.
     
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  3. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I dumped mine after a couple years just because it was too modern sounding!
     
  4. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    I don't hate the JVMs but I know they're not to my tastes. The high gain sound I want is based off a heavily modded Plexi circuit with extra gain stages, 80s style. That sound isn't ultra gain as has been popularized with modern metal over the last 20 years. Nor do I want it to be.
     
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  5. Chris-in-LA

    Chris-in-LA Well-Known Member

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    Too many knobs are intimidating, I’m not interested in even trying one. I think that’s called contempt prior to investigation.
     
  6. giblesp

    giblesp Well-Known Member

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    That was my first impression, I think its ok now. You could always use a pedal though.
     
  7. giblesp

    giblesp Well-Known Member

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    Similar to what I was saying. I find it can do an 80's sound, but for me that's its weak area. A Ts9 might sort that out, but I wouldn't know. TBH, though its high gain its a very smooth and organic. Nu metalers may be put off by that.
     
  8. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I had the 410H. My friend referred to it as the 100 watt 100 knob Marshall LOL!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  9. BftGibson

    BftGibson Well-Known Member

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    Find all amps inspiring..enjoy them for what they do..or join the stuck in the 1 sound 1 amp past & down everybody & everything that is posted ,,..want a real good marshall..build it..its just values in a circuit after all
     
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  10. Benighted

    Benighted Member

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    I find the JVM series amazing. This is the only amp that can give me the sound in my head without any pedals. My impression is the hate comes from people looking for more traditional (classic rock) tones. JVM can have these too, but was not designed with only this in mind. For the music genre I play (prog metal) the JVM is beyond and above any other amp on the market. The only weak point (but not a deal-breaker) is the FX loop.
     
  11. Filipe Soares

    Filipe Soares Well-Known Member

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    I don't feel hate about the JVM, I feel a strong G.A.S.
     
  12. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I think many compare the Jvm to classic Marshalls, being it’s considered the current Cadillac of the Marshall line. It has a more modern tone than some other Marshalls that some do not care for.

    In it’s defense it’s a very versatile amp, maybe the most versatile Marshall. It’s has a great selection of tones from the cleanest clean to the heaviest drive.

    But I don’t know if it really has it’s own tone, It tries to do everything, and does to some degree.

    Now this next reason may not be a reason at all,.....it shouldn’t be a reason,.....but it might be a reason,.....all those phucking knobs are unsightly,.....imo! :D
     
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  13. MonstersOfTheMidway

    MonstersOfTheMidway Well-Known Member

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    The popular complaints: too many knobs; build "quality": pots solder to pcb, plastic pot shafts, pots not secured to chassis (current models I think are secured to chassis IIRC; digital reverb; too noisy; too "modern sounding"; parallel/serial effects loop, etc. Having owned a JVM for over 10 years, I can't say any of these common/typical complaints really amount to anything. I mean, give me what some people claim is a good representation a "high quality" build in an amp (if owners would give me their "high-quality build" amp as a nice vote of confidence), and I'm 100% sure I can break some component on that son of a bitch.

    What's noteworthy is that if all anyone ever did was visit this forum, then you'd get a strong impression that both the JVM2 and JVM4 are terrible. Keep in mind that the percentage of active member versus the total number of registered members is small (and it gets even smaller when you look at the people who actually owned a JVM2 or JVM4).

    If you step out into the real world, JVM2 and JVM4 have won several awards and lauded recognition from various musical institutions. Additionally, in past couple of years JVM2 and JVM4 have been best sellers at several musical instrument dealers (I think one year it was Marshall's best seller according to forum member BigDooley, who has a good relationship with JVM designer Santiago Alvarez as well as a few other good sources). Talking to people in the real world who've actually owned or played a JVM2 or JVM4, the experience, though anecdotal at heart, has been more positive than negative.

    JVM4 was introduced in 2006 (I think JVM2 was introduced in 2007 IIRC). Since then, good Marshall amps such as Vintage Modern, JMD:1, Haze 40, etc. have come and gone. If JVM2 and JVM4 were so "hated," why on earth would Marshall still bother producing such a crappy amp for more than 10 years now? It's an open-ended question at heart, but a valid point imo, and I'm sure a wide range of answers will get thrown around. But fact is dealers/stores keep ordering them and Marshall keeps pumping them out.

    But remember: all my opinions/observations/impressions/bullsh*t is just that (just like everyone else's here on this forum). I'm OK with people making up their own mind instead of relying on me to sort things out. People are gonna believe what they want to believe, which is pretty much how the world works.
     
  14. IOSEPHVS

    IOSEPHVS Well-Known Member

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    With what, a 2 or 3 inch tank?
     
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  15. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    I would agree with most above, it is a modern sounding amp. The 4 series can do more classic tones on channel 1 and 2. It has 4 channels. So it has 4 basic sets of amp controls thus lots of knobs. You set one channel at a time. Like a mixing board.

    Mine covers everyrhing. It is set up for live performances. As for digital reverb, it sounds like reverb. Like in a hall. Not like sprinhs. I hate spring reverb it doesnt sound like reverb from a large room at all, it sounds like the 1950's attempt at doing so. Put a verb in the loop and go. To kiss out on such a versatile Marshall simply because of built in reverb is a shame.
    Versatile, loud killer amps. Not for everyone but why the hate? A plexi isn't for me but I sure don't hate on them!
    Play whatever you got to the best of your ability ans enjoy it!
     
  16. spacerocker

    spacerocker Well-Known Member

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    No hate here!

    JVM is a great amp and covers more ground than most! 800's and all that are OK if you want a great ryhthm sound, and are happy with the compromise that you can't have a great rock rhythm sound AND a loud clear lead tone.....you'll need pedals to try to achieve this - and it never really worked well for me....

    The JVM IS focussed on modern sounds, but can produce some very good low-medium gain classic sounds on the settings nobody ever tries when evaluating this amp - i.e Clean Red, and Crunch Green and Orange!

    It is a bit less bright and dynamic than some of the classic amps - but with a couple of simple mods it opens the sound right up!

    As for the digital reverb - I don't know what the problem is? It is a good, transparent reverb with a tight clear sound - ideal for rock playing! I guess that people who don't like it either reject it on principle because it is digital (as some of the best reverbs are), Doesn't sound like a cathedral, or doesn't give that squashy, boingey sound of a spring reverb which personally I don't particularly care for!

    I haven't used my 1980 2203 in 11 years since buying the JVM410H!
     
  17. LPMarshall hack

    LPMarshall hack Well-Known Member

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    Great amps. The hate comes from the ancient “purists” who believe everything produced after 1979 is cheap Chinese garbage.
     
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  18. IOSEPHVS

    IOSEPHVS Well-Known Member

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    Opinion:
    I own an EHX Cathedral. It is a nice stereo reverb/ping pong delay, but not for a valve amp. I use it with my E-mu Proteus Keys synth which is digital.

    Fact:
    Here is what digital effects do to your nice warm analog valve-produced signal:

    Part or all of the signal is converted from analog to digital. This produces latency, strips off the high frequencies (everything above half the sample rate), and greatly distorts the signal which must be dithered to try to approximate its original waveform.

    Then that signal must be coverted back from digital to analog (creating more latency) and either mixed back with the original signal or sent directly to the output.

    The final product is not and cannot equal the original signal. For an analogy, listen to an album on vinyl and compare it to a CD/DVD-Audio version. DVD-Audio will sound better than a CD-Audio version because its sample rate and bit depth are higher, giving it more on/off bits per sample and higher frequencies processed, but will not sound anything like the original/vinyl.

    Opinion:
    Why does this matter? It doesn't if you are practicing in your bedroom. I have a Vox ToneLab for practice and it's great. When it does matter is when you are recording your album or playing live, and you want to give the listener the best possible experience.

    Why spend the money on a high-end valve amp and then muddy it up with digital effects? I would just buy a much less expensive modeling amp like a Vox Valvetronix.

    Adding a reverb pedal to a JVM is simple enough. The problems are tank size and a 12AX7 to re-amplify the signal (as with many Marshall reverb models). So, find me an affordable reverb pedal with a large spring tank and a 12AX7, and I would consider a JVM.
     
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  19. giblesp

    giblesp Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting views here.
    Just finished my early evening practice, and once again loving it.

    Always some tweaking to do when I switch guitars, but nothing major. My Les Paul has really come to life. Always said, LP and Marshall were made for one another.

    I had some initial dramas with the FX Loop, however it turned out that the buffer on my MXR Black Label Chorus was the issue. I only now use a Vox Timemachine and BOSS Waza Chorus, now all is well. A lot better than the loop on my DSL 401.

    The reverb is always up for debate; when I first got the amp I was disappointed. But it has grown on me, it does integrate very well with the overall sound of the amp. Its not in the same league of say the reverb on a Messa, but its adequate.
    I've yet to try a dedicated reverb pedal. Notice some of you have a preference for tanks; I'd say that with today's pedals that's not really necessary, but understand if some of you feel differently.
     
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  20. rick16v

    rick16v Well-Known Member

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    I have a JVM. I quite like it but I'm never happy with amps.

    Its a bit noisy but I use a gate.
    The cleans are nice (not quite jubilee nice). The midi is useful.
    The master vol is very good. I can tame it to bedroom volume and it still sounds good enough to have fun with.

    What's not to like.
     
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