Why buy Vintage? Someone else's baggage..

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Large_Filter_Cap, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. Large_Filter_Cap

    Large_Filter_Cap Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    OT_Canada
    Of course vintage Marshalls have their reputation for being great sounding amps for alot of reasons, and having one would be cool to have in a collection of amps but if you had $2000 to use for a new Marshall, for me at least, I prefer to buy new or at least pre-owned for a few years tops.

    Just like any old electronics, wouldn't an old Marshall be subjected to the same wear out of components? Old resisters, caps, transformers, wiires, whatever all need to be replaced for optimal performance. So if you buy a vintage JTM, or Plexi head for $1500, plus extra costs for biasing, changing components, and cleaning you are closer to $2000. For that price you could get a brand new VM with a half stack, JVM 410 head, DSL, whatever. These amps are new and many vintage enthusiasts shun them, but these new amps will have their place in Marshall amp folklore in 20 years too.

    I'm really just speaking about in a cost perspective. An old vintage amp that has to be serviced will cost just as much or equal to a new amp. for things like electronics, for me new is better
     
  2. triftstrassa

    triftstrassa New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Phoenix Arizona
    There is something that you didnt take into consideration in your proclamation of un knowingness.

    Sound.

    Alot of old marshalls have a sound, that although alot of bedroom players will say they can achieve it with their new DSL, that can only be found at high volume through vintage amps.

    Its good that people want to be exactly the same, dont want old cars, dont want red guitars or whatever.
    It lets the rest of us have the ability to buy what we want for cheaper, and less of it has been molested by those who purchase old stuff, and try to hot rod the hell out of so they can jam the newest song, in their bedroom.
     
  3. 93DMTX

    93DMTX New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    Big D
    THATS BS !!!!!

    I play old songs and I play in my office ! Otherwise I resemble that remark.



    :lol::):lol::):lol::)
     
  4. jcmjmp

    jcmjmp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,105
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Location:
    Canada
    Aside from old electrolytic caps and tubes, the older, vintage Marshalls shouldn't need anything to be replaced, really.
     
  5. ironlung40

    ironlung40 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,192
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    TN
    If you find the tone you want in a new amp, go for it. But, bear in mind, it will need servicing just like an old one soon enough.

    the older amps have a vibe and tone unlike any of the newer ones. I'm not saying that the new marshalls don't sound great, but they're not the same either.......of course the differences vary model to model.......but if vintage model was what I was after, I wouldn't let maintenance keep me from it. The older amps are much easier to work on, and often times only a few components need attention anyway.....most common are filter caps and tubes, which is really routine on any tube amp.....resistors, and other smaller components only need to be replaced if they drift too far from their rated values and they're very cheap to replace when this happens. As far as expensive repairs, like transformers, etc....these items can last a lifetime as long as the amp is cared for and treated properly.

    To each his own.......i've got old one's and new one's.
     
  6. blues_n_cues

    blues_n_cues Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    22,226
    Likes Received:
    20,114
    Location:
    Dixie Hollow
    what he said. plus,most techs around here won't touch anything w/ even a dash of ss in it.
     
  7. V-man

    V-man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    4,058
    Likes Received:
    2,724
    you're not wrong entirely, you're just missing some things. some times buying used means buying other peoples problems. some people are better off buying new.not everybody though.
     
  8. GaryM

    GaryM New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trust me, when I turn my 2008 JCM900 4100 up to 3 quarter volume it sounds fantastic. It also sounds good at low bedroom levels.

    I haven't heard many old amps at full volume so I'm only going by what I've heard but what I have noticed is that when I'm jamming with other band members at loud volume, I really don't think you'd be able to tell the difference between a vintage or a re-issue.

    I've noticed massive sound differences depending on the room I'm playing in.

    Ey
     
  9. Wycked Lester

    Wycked Lester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    5,105
    Likes Received:
    2,960
    Location:
    667 Neighbor of the Beast
    So, you are guessing?
     
  10. DSL100 Dude

    DSL100 Dude New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,764
    Likes Received:
    688
    I have a little issue with this.

    If the DSL, JVM, VM, and such are so much better then why would Marshall bother to reissue the 1959, 1987, etc.?

    They even spend the time and manpower to build hand wired new vintage amps if that is your desire. I think that alone says alot about the vintage stuff.

    I can tell you that if I were to buy a NEW amp anytime soon it would not be a JVM it would be a WILDER CLASSIC CLASSIC!!! Why? Because of bawlz to the wallz tone. I understand that I most likely do not have quite as refined of an ear as some other folks but to me the reissues of the Plexis sound spot on to the ones I have heard my whole life. The Wilder sounds the closest to me from sound clips but live and in the face is where it REALLY matters.

    All I know is that I get offers on my "Vintage" Jackson and "Vintage" Mesa/Boogie 50Cal. all the time. All my other stuff is run of the mill. It may sound great but there is no desirability.
     
  11. Australian

    Australian Green Beret Silver Supporting Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    18,224
    Likes Received:
    10,219
    yes.

    I dont mind having to drive out to a techs workshop once in a while to have something repaired and having a yarn. Its a learning experience.
     
  12. hasic

    hasic New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, but everybody does not have the same taste for tone/sound. To be honest, my opinion is that if the DSL or other random modern marshall in that pricerange, is worth those kind of money, then the vintages are worth alot more. This is just my opinion, and luckily the vintage amps aren't as expensive as they could be.

    Why buy modern/new?
    - You still pay a high price (if we're talking amps in that price range)
    - After a while you too will have to pay service etc, and since the older amps in general are very simple for techs, you would pay a higher price
    - If you play some older styles of music like say, blues for example. A DSL/JVM or even a VM will not get you to the same tones as a Plexi.

    Also, as far as the "someone else's baggage" goes, it's not something vintage amp owners choose really. If we could find the vintage tones in the reissues or the modern marshalls, we probably would get them to save a hassle, but that's not how it goes because vintage is vintage and modern is modern. It's actually just about being willing to take a small risk to get the sound you want.
     
  13. Large_Filter_Cap

    Large_Filter_Cap Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    OT_Canada
    What makes you so sure a Wilder CC has bawls to the wallz tone and is better than a JVM when you just admit your ear is not so refined?:hmm:

    At least for me, I never said Vintage tone was worse than modern amps. I said vintage has great tones and understandbly so, but so does modern Marshalls- they both sound great, but they are different.

    Remember that when a master volume came out, it was ridiculed (still is by some); when the JCM 800 came out it was also shunned on by Marshall purists and enthusiasts. Not so now.

    The exact same applied for modern day Marshall amps; some of them are great, some of them mediocre. Many of them are accepted, many of them are shunned. The best modern day Marshall amps will find their pages in the history books too.

    That being said, if a 60's to 80's Marshall tone is not paramount to your guitar playing, why buy vintage and hassle with the all the baggage that comes with vintage, when you can be spending the same (perhaps cheaper) for a brand new head that you can make vintage yourself.

    Again for me, its a cost to value perspective. Sounding exactly like Clapton on the Beano album, Townshead, or the Allman brothers is not paramount for me. So shelling out for a vintage head doesn't make sense, but a brand new modern amp that covers alot of bases, and still sounds great does make sense.
     
  14. V-man

    V-man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    4,058
    Likes Received:
    2,724
    post got hackeded :{
     
  15. stax

    stax Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    1,905
    Location:
    SoCal
    One reason an old Marshall is so desireble is because of it's place in early hard rock history (if you could find a Plexi for $1500 and didn't buy it!!), anyway, the older amps are easier to work on if something go's wrong, to mod and/or unmod, won't lose it's value and the tone of these 30 - 40 year old "girls" is still finer than the new "girls" so to speak.

    I might be wrong, but 20 years from now classic Marshall tones or the "Marshall" sound will still be 60's - 80's Marshalls, not the 2018 QSL (that's quad super lead from the future):)
     
  16. Australian

    Australian Green Beret Silver Supporting Member VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    18,224
    Likes Received:
    10,219
    I'm looking forward to that QSL. it will be cordless...no more guitar cables, and will have a built in Mpad-like an Ipad, but because in this point in time Apple Mac owns the world and Marshall, every amp wiill have a computer built in to it.
     
  17. jcmjmp

    jcmjmp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,105
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Location:
    Canada
    I think its because of all the Wilder hype on this forum.
     
  18. Large_Filter_Cap

    Large_Filter_Cap Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    OT_Canada
    That could probably explain why two posts that mentioned Wilder (including mine) just got hacked.
    I smell conspiracy:lol:
     
  19. jcmjmp

    jcmjmp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,105
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Location:
    Canada
    :hippie:
     
  20. Bieling3

    Bieling3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,851
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Location:
    up-state New York
    If I had $2000 to spend on Marshalls I'd get a used TSL, a used 1987x or JMP and a stereo cab then take the left over money to the liqueur store. All the bases covered. If I won the lottery tomorrow you'd still have a hard time convincing me to buy anything new off the shelf.
     

Share This Page