Why are Vintage 30's so popular?

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by What?, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I have tried a few and they just seem to be to thin with too much top end which I could dial out with the Treble and Presence down to almost nothing...ugh! I even tried another one and still have it in inventory just in case but once again, I found the same thing happened. Sound just OK at bedroom levels and when cranked, up look out, those think high end frequencies again.
     
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  2. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to try a couple of 2x12 loaded with Blackbirds.
     
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  3. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t go for all speakers. Not everyone knows that. Your analogy is incorrect. You have totally missed the point here. You didn’t have to, butt you did. :facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
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  4. Edgar Frog

    Edgar Frog Well-Known Member

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    We are talking about guitar speakers, right? I havent heard one yet that doesn't sound better being pushed a little at higher volumes, that's where they realy show their character. Even some breakeup is nice on some of them. So I will have to agree to dissagree with you. Hi fi speakers are different I don't want those pushed to hard to retain clarity. But were not talking about those are we. And I didn't say everyone either. I think dude is underestimating the majority of the community here acting like all the people that don't like V30's never playd them loud. I'm sure tons here have pushed them babies hard. You either like them or you don't. But whatever. I stand by what I said. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  5. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    I do not push my Marshall Vintage speakers hard and they always sound good.

    But maybe that is because I know how to dial things in for good sound. :shrug: :)
     
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  6. Edgar Frog

    Edgar Frog Well-Known Member

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    It all boils down to personal preference. People that love how some speakers sound at idle may not like how they sound cranked and vice versa and they may like them even more. Better/worse is really actually dumb terms when it comes to tone. It's all personal preference and highly subjective, nothing more. It's not that you know how to dial in a better tone with them, it's that they work for you and give you what you want in a speaker and for the way you use them. V30's don't suck at all, they just don't work for everyone's ears and style and or the way they use them. I don't like them either way and dialing them in or how hard or soft they are pushed has nothing to do with it. Greenbacks happen to check all my boxes no matter how I use them. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
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  7. AlvisX

    AlvisX Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Hate em
     
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  8. Antti Heikkinen

    Antti Heikkinen Member

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    Best cab I ever played with a Marshall had a T-75 and a V30. The combo sounds great, especially in a well used cab.

    I never found V30s good, have bought them and ice-pick was a word I'd use. I then bought an Eminence Governor which is sort of a V30 clone, as per description, but has far less top end ice.

    Now I have a 1936 cab with a g12-65 and a Governor in it, and boy it's a great cab. The 65 gives a massive low kick and that roundness to the sound I want, while the Governor adds some much required bite and upper range aggression.

    I think THIS in now a cab I shall never part with. Loud as hell with my Plexi, but easy to carry around and most importantly sounds superbly focused punchy and just plain great.
     
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  9. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    Here’s the thing, you totally missed the point of the conversation you replied to while trying to sound smart: Kind of ironic but I’ll let that go now. Anyway, the point was that a mid pushed speaker will begin to offset the compression effect of our ears as volume increases. So if a speaker sounds high/mid strong at low volume it will “ balance” out at high volume. Comparatively an amp set just right with a mid scooped speaker at low volume will sound too scooped at high volume. Some folks know this, some don’t. Some tweak for this intently, and some do it without knowing (or wanting to know) why they do it. Think about how confusing this makes comparisons of two identical amps and speakers if the two guys discussing it don’t use volume as a reference. Online comparisons are particularly confusing because you can only hear what the mic hears and your hearing “compression” is not represented by the mic, but is only subject to your headphone or sound system volume.
     
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  10. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    And that is why I stated "But maybe that is because I know how to dial things in for good sound. :shrug: :)" in my above post.

    Everything changes at volume. :agreed:
     
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  11. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    Every speaker has a character and every person has a different setup.

    I like Marshall Vintage 30 because of its capabilities. It can play cleaner at volume and has the extra midrange and top end. I use EQ to give me what I want. It is easy to take away sort of speak.
    What I like most, since I like to setup with the cleanest signal possible for any type music, is the efficiency/sensitivity/SPL. I can play at less power output while being loud and clean. I do not want my speakers to distort. I want them to reproduce what I put into them as clean as possible.

    It is kind of a Hi-Fi approach but that is my personal preference.
     
  12. TXOldRedRocker

    TXOldRedRocker Senior Discount Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I like my V30, but I've never played it on its own. It's been paired with 3 other Celestion speakers in a 2x12. I worked on combinations I like for that cab. After rolling the speakers in and out, my preferred pairing is a V30 with a G12H 75 Creamback.

    I don't play anything metalish or dark. I'm classic rock and blues. Think Doobies, Frampton, Bad Company, SRV, even Jimmy Buffett. Darkest I get is some Blue Box toned ZZ Top.

    The 2x12 is shared between a SV20H and a Blackstar HT20R Mk II (for clean). The V30 on its own, for me, would sound a little mid-high spikey. The Creamback, for me, on its own would be a better all-around speaker. These two together really compliment each other, I think. I enjoy the clean tones, modulated clean, the SV20H breakup, and when dirty, by pedals, they still sound great.

    Love these two together.... for me.

    G12H 75 Creamback
    G12HCream.gif

    V30
    V30.gif
     
  13. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    :flex:
    Ya, I find these pair well too. I have a similar’ish mix to yours but on a major diet: Neo Creamback on top with a Century Vintage below. Just got to be careful you don’t put the cab through the ceiling when you pick it up.. it’s stupid light. :flex:
     
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  14. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    My experiences with speakers have been exactly opposite of that. At higher volumes they tend to be pushed into compression and any accented or attenuated frequencies get pushed more into the same volume plain. For example, when I play a G12H30 type at lower volume, it has deep lows and detailed highs. But when I push it it sounds much more mid focused, losing that accents of deep lows and detailed highs relative to the mids. And that experience has been the same for me with any speakers I have ever used, guitar or otherwise. I have never heard mids go down in a speaker in relation to lows and highs at higher volumes.

    So with Vintage 30's (the variants I have owned and used) my issue has been that they are already mid focused, so pushing them doesn't bring anything new or good. They just get louder and crappier. And they are rated pretty high at 60 watts, so you might have a hard time pushing them any way. But a 100 watt tube amp into a pair of them will do it.

    And for whatever it is worth, one variant of Vintage 30's I have owned were the ones that came in the cab when I owned a dual rec and matching cab. I hated that cab. It would fart out at higher volume.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
  15. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    Well I don’t know what to say this is not typically a debated effect among pro’s in the industry. How our ears work have been well researched, tested, and documented. Remember the “loudness” button? Guess what that was for. ;-)

    Now a speaker’s response at very low volume as well as it’s compression in its “designed” power operating range, and its behaviour when pushed is a totally separate subject. However, all these things along with our hearing (as well as the amp) all factor in to give you the timbre/balance “you” hear at differing volumes.
     
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  16. johan.b

    johan.b Well-Known Member

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    When they first came out, we laughed and said they made your tube amp sound like solid state... now people rave about them and swear by their 80's solid state marshall's... what can I say?...:io:
     
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  17. aberry9475

    aberry9475 Active Member

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    All I've gotta say about the v30 is, if you've never heard an old one that's nice and broken in, you probably have yet to understand the hype. That's how it was for me at least.
     
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  18. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    The Marshall Vintage Project was the last big attempt to emulate the character of AlNiCo with Ferrite. Most if not all of Celestion early speakers were attempts to duplicate AlNiCo because the materials were getting more expensive and ferrite/ceramic compositions were cheaper. Also to note is ferrite magnets have to be much larger and heavier to even come close to AlNiCo.

    If anything cheap ferrite speakers sound like garbage compared to any AlNiCo.
    Some like the modern ferrite guitar speakers. There are some really good ones like the Marshall Vintage. My opinion is that AlNiCo still shines above overall.

    Here is a little read.

    upload_2020-12-21_13-3-45.png
     
  19. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    There you have it, my neo magnet speaker can kick your Ferrite speaker’s ass. :flex: Celestion needs to start getting better names for their neo speaker like Bruiser or The punisher or Magneto (nope scratch that one), or MRI (nope getting way to nerdy now...:facepalm:

    :lol::lol:
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  20. aberry9475

    aberry9475 Active Member

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    There's still no denying 90+% of the most popular guitar tones in the past 5 decades were made with ceramic magnets though. V30's, G12M's, G12H's, G12T-75's, G12-65's.. Hardly none of my rock influences played AlNiCos.

    Plot twist: Imagine if they did though. I do love the AlNiCo Gold myself. Maybe just because it's different, not the norm.

    Sounds amazing with a G12H Heritage, which begs the question..?por que no los dos? ;-)

    Edit: idk if I agree that AlNiCo in general gives a warm classic tone. Some do maybe. But the gold for example is chimey, not warm like a greenback. And that's why I like it.
     

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