Why are Vintage 30's so popular?

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by What?, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I'll post some more on this tomorrow doing some eq tinkering with various sound clips.
     
  2. EndGame00

    EndGame00 Well-Known Member

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    They seem to handle high gain stuff better than any other speaker...Loved V-30’s when I had the Mesa, hated V-30’s when I got a Plexi clone...
     
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  3. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe I mentioned only using vintage Jensens or even just Jensen in that post but on another note, yes I can, pretty sure, practically positive. :)
     
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  4. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I think this may have a lot of truth in it.
    I have read (somewhere) that the 'G' prefix for Celestion speakers started way back, when 'G' stood for General, not Guitar.
    This snip from a Celestion brochure seems to support that.
    https://celestion.com/files/brochures/Guitar_Speaker_Catalogue.pdf

    Celestion General.JPG
     
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  5. Edgar Frog

    Edgar Frog Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any pre rola celestions but a test to see if they were regular FR loudspeakers is to hook them up to a stereo. If they sound clear and crisp with all the music then they are FR, if they sound lofi/unclear like every guitar speaker I ever tried then there's your answer. I know there's people here with them to debunk if true or not. :)
     
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  6. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    A little excerpt from bygonetones.com:

    My bet is that progressively heavier doping was introduced for durability, for the purpose of lowering warranty/service costs.

    I remember how dull the speakers sounded in some of my first guitar amps and how unsatisfied I was with them in comparison to the hifi woofers that I had taken to using.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  7. Headache

    Headache Well-Known Member

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    I think the V30 is great for playing live because is is very good at cutting through the mix. It stands out.

    It is good enough to record with, and it's very loud.

    It's very middy and that's also it's appeal.
     
  8. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Is it really though? Why the scooped tonestacks in guitar amps then? Keep in mind that these tonestacks are old designs, when 'guitar' speakers were akin to hifi.

    [​IMG]

    It's no secret that human hearing is most sensitive to the mid frequencies. If you flip the Fletcher-Munson curves upside down, you get a sense of the ear acting as an eq on a flat audio source. This tells us that out ears are much more sensitive to mid range frequencies, drastically less sensitive to low frequencies, and much less sensitive to high frequencies. Notice that the eq curves of guitar amp tonestacks are doing something like the opposite of the Fletcher-Munson curves. And outside of guitar, lots of people prefer some scooped mids (or exaggerated lows and highs) for music listening because of sensitivity to mids, i.e. the V eq shape or boombox sound.

    [​IMG]

    This is also one reson why vinyl can sound so damn good. Those tizzy highs and fat low mids. (Notice here that Billy Gibbons also had plenty of highs in his sound back then)



    But where earlier 'guitar' speakers seemed to follow more or less approaching a maintaining of the Fletcher-Munson 'eq', progressively over time guitar speakers have gone the opposite direction of those earlier speakers, at least in the high frequencies. And so of course lots of guitar players complain about the sound of Vintage 30s, which are pushing even more mids forward on top of our natural hearing curves that are already very sensitive to mids. HONK.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  9. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    This. Nonetheless, I also like them with other amps too.

    I went through a period when I put away my V30s and Marshall Vintage speakers and went to GBs. However, I'm back with V30s again now. They are smoother than GBs. I started noticing the grit in GBs too much, as well as the looser bottom.

    I love V30s. I love how they sing.
    But:
    1) They have to be well broke in. A few gigs doesn't do it.
    2) They are picky about amps.
    3) Not all V30s are created equal
    A The Marshall Vintage is brighter with less mid range honk.
    B The Boogie version is warmer
    C The Chinese version is harsher
     
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  10. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    I have only ever used the Marshall Vintage G12V speakers and not Celestion Vintage 30. Marshall original specification are the original and best version.
    How about you?
     
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  11. Ken Ops

    Ken Ops Member

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    “Cuts through in a mix” seems to be their virtue if anything is.

    I don’t much like what they do to sound, but if I had to use them live say? No big. I’d put up.

    Could be there’s more to “midrange”, “treble”, “bass”, etc., than sheerly amounts over each entire (very broad) band. In other words, you can have different midrange qualities, different treble qualities, etc. Some people touch on this a bit, with references to “upper mids”, “lower mids”, etc. But there’s more to it than that as well.

    So, some might hear an overall “dullness”, a “hyped” sound, “fatiguing” highs, a “brittle” quality, “thinness”, “flabby” lows, a “muddy” sound, etc., depending on the speakers (and other pieces of the audio chain).

    In isolation, the V30s have unpleasant characteristics, to my ears. But in a full mix, eh. Whatever works.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  12. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    I have used the:
    G12 Vintage (Marshall's version) made in the UK
    Celestion Vintage 30 (Mesa Version) made in the UK
    90's standard Celestion Vintage 30 made in the UK
    2000's + China made Celestion Vintage 30 (just played through not owned)

    They are all subtly different.
     
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  13. Ramo

    Ramo Well-Known Member

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    I would not want just V30s in my cab, if I can, I would mix em up with t 75s, I like that speaker (I know lots of peeps hate it).

    What I hear is, for metal it gives lots of punch and sounds aggressive for low end and cuts through the mix.
     
  14. Bloodrock

    Bloodrock Well-Known Member

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    Love V30’s for most everything, tried greenbacks but they were just honkey mids and flubby low end. Good for 60’s/70’s stuff i guess. Not for anything newer IMO. Lately I’ve started liking the V-type. Less mid spike than a V30 but no flubby honkeyness like a GB.
     
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  15. EL 34

    EL 34 Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak about the V30 variants but the Marshall/Celestion Vintage speaker is powerful, tight, transparent. It's everything I want in a speaker. There's nothing honky or shrill about them to me.
     
  16. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I never tried the Marshall branded Vintage. It sounds like it might be an improvement over the regular V30, of which there seems to be quite a bit of variation. But for all of the V30's I have owned, I was never really a fan of their sound. It may be to do with the variations I have owned, but back then I didn't know about that sort of thing and didn't pay attention to any identifying details of variations. Any hoo, I'm turned off by the ones I have owned and used.
     
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  17. RCM 800

    RCM 800 Well-Known Member

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    Ive got both, their all within a twist of an EQ knob of one another.
     
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  18. EL 34

    EL 34 Well-Known Member

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    Both? There are 4 or 5 v30s plus the original Celestion/Marshall vintage.
     
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  19. RCM 800

    RCM 800 Well-Known Member

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    marshall, chinese and UK. Never had boogie ones.

    ETA Forgot and Avatar Hellatone 60.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  20. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    I think the cab , amp and pickup help. The only vintage 30 I really l liked was in a orange 2 x 12 cab . Back when I had my Badcat Cougar 50 but I liked the amp . The cab would have cost more than I paid for the amp. Got a killer deal at Xmas 2012 for the amp. I don’t remember what speakers were in the Mesa Boogie cab I played but it was a different amp and guitar.
     
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