What's the real difference between Gibson and Epiphone?

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by PowerTube44, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    THIN urethane finishes impede the vibration of the wood no more and no less than a nitro finish of the same thickness.
     
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  2. Sapient

    Sapient   Silver Supporting Member Gold Supporting Member

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    This thread is like the ugly fat girl insisting that she's no different than
    the hot girl. But nobody really wants to come out and tell her the truth.

    What we're are seeing here is where entitlement mentality is present
    and the entitled kinda take on the social edge of consideration. This while
    the truth and reality get kinda thrown to the back seat. Quite humorous
    and ever-so modern this is.
     
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  3. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

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    The irony is that Henry saved Gibson when he took over in 1986 as they were on the brink/verge of going belly up . The same gent who lead them and saved them from the Norlin era after CMI sold was the gent that almost killed them . I am sure beyond a doubt that Henry got the mother of all Golden Parachutes to sail away into oblivion . Henry has launched Care Moat , which is a business designed to save small business as much as 40% in health care costs , it is designed for business with 1-500 people . Leave it to Henry to take peoples health care away . So his red horns have survived intact from his trying to destroy Gibson from partnering with Metastafolius himself (that's who he got his own red horns from ) This was one major weirdo , who invented robo tuners and crap like that and he probably had some scam going to try to build a guitar that would play itself for the musically challenged . Like something on X Box or Sony Play Station . Let me go back to the robo tuners for a second . From when I was in Kindergarten when I took up Violin and then Cello , one of the first things we were taught was how to tune the instrument , yes we were giving pitchpipes (violin is E A D G ) ( cello is C D G A ) The point I am making is we were taught at that early age how to listen with our ears and then use our ears in how to tune an instrument . Guitar is no different as I was giving a 440 A tuning fork when I started taking lessons ,until I got a BOSS Tuner . You want to piss people off play out of tune ! That whole debacle and I mean major debacle of the "True Historic's" starting in 2015 which caused the prices of an R9 to go from $6299 to $8499 was all Henry . Including making Authentic and Authorized dealers pony up $100,000 grand for the privilage of carrying the flagship Gibson Custom line . Dealers were dropping left and right including Dave's Guitars where I got my first Historic R9 in 2014 . I was not drinking the Kool Aid of the more accurate plastics ( can you imagine for a second ? freaking plastic ? really ? ) , the more accurate top carve , the hand rolled finger board binding (that's a load as well for my small brain as well , as if I can feel a difference ? ) , the hand sanded wet finishes . I did get into arguments with folks over this stuff as it is a natural defense mechanism to defend ones purchases and to justify them . One of my arguments was the Gibson Custom Shop Custombucker pickups . Were they improved ? Were they closer to the vaunted Holy Grail of the Vintage PAF pickups ? As in to my pea brain it still boils down to the TONE of the instrument . The Custombucker pickups SUCK BIG TIME , with the weak and anemic A3 magnets ( and the magnets and the wire come from over seas , and we were talking about that the previous day ) To me they are like hospital food in weak and bland and devoid of any flavor or taste . Why does Gibson Custom do this you may ask ? The answer is that with a weak and vanilla and bland pickup , they don't favor one style of voice over another , where they are middle of the road bland . Really ? , You pay all that money for a guitar that sounds like ass ? I stumbled upon ThroBak pickups from having a bad set of Crapbuckers that squealed to no end that just flat out annoyed me to no end and I had to fix them or the R8 was going to be firewood . Everything for me has not been a bed of roses or peaches and cream , I have had issues with Gibson from time to time , as nothing is perfect . Yet , that sound is in my DNA as when it works there is nothing else like it at all . You want to get a good laugh ? The Custombucker pickups are only for sale by Gibson Custom only if you by a Gibson Custom R series guitar or the new Murphy Lab Historics . Tom Murphy the master craftsman / artisan that formerly hand aged the guitars with his razor blade made check marks ( oh yeah that 's what I am into - NOT ) Now he has along with Gibson Custom a proprietary ownership of a secret nitro lacquer formula that is designed to mirror the appearance of a vintage instrument that has lacquer checking and looks old and vintage . Which for me is a load as I am not into that sort of thing . Now there is a market for that as a pricepoint for whom someone that wants the appearance of a vintage burst but doesn't have a spare $400,000 laying around gets the next best thing in a Murphy Lab aged Les Paul R9 . For me if I am forking over that kind of coin I wan't it in pristine brand new factory condition , same as when you buy a brand new automobile . Imagine going to a car dealership and being offered a reliced / aged car ? Like what was it wrecked ? This kind of thing gets my dander up , but to each there own I guess . Have I piled on enough ?
     
  4. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

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    reliced cars? shit you might be on to something there lol.
    the guy with the razor blade does good work with what he does.
    i cant imagine the time it took to actually learn
    that skill before he started finding short cuts. crapbuckers lol.
     
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  5. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    "Metastafolius"???:shrug:
    Do you mean "Mephistopheles"?:coffee:

    Don't get me started on the practice of making new instruments look like old well worn relics. To me that's just posery of the douchiest order, and I say that if you want a new guitar to look like it's been gigged in smoky nightclubs for 20 years, then get yourself those gigs and get busy.

    Yes, properly done, rolled fingerboard edges make the neck considerably more comfortable. I do that on every guitar I build.
     
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  6. PowerTube44

    PowerTube44 Well-Known Member

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    I went shopping for a Les Paul in 1986 (long story). At the time, practically no one wanted them because the Super Strat "shredder" guitars were all the rage. Then after Guns & Roses hit the scene, with Slash playing what everyone "thought" was a Les Paul, Gibson got hot again.
     
  7. PowerTube44

    PowerTube44 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. And it's companies pushing the whole "mojo" crap that do this.
     
  8. anitoli

    anitoli Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    A relicd guitar would be like Chevy coming out with a C8 that looks like it's been on the streets of Detroit for 10 years and cost's 85k. Absurd.
     
  9. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

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    yea but ya cant get mad at marketing. its kinda like going to a strip club. all those star gazed guys setting there
    handing over their hard earned like candy to a baby. the girls sell them thoughts and ideas and make each one think hes special
    while the bigger spenders really get sold dreamy "visions" lol. at the end of the night some guys leave and on the way home
    they have these huge smiles believing they just got one step closer to their dreams at a huge cost and some guys on the way home all of a
    sudden realize they just got took hook line and sinker and wonder what in the hell they are gonna tell their wives when there
    is no bill money, no money for lil johnny to have his much needed shoes, and so on. but everybody wants to get mad at the striper
    for doing her job. both parties go home empty handed still. so ask yourself a question, are you a step closer or do you have some explaining to do?
    then there are a few that dont even realize anything just happened. poor sap's
     
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  10. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

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    The irony is that Henry saved Gibson when he took over in 1986 as they were on the brink/verge of going belly up . The same gent who lead them and saved them from the Norlin era after CMI sold was the gent that almost killed them . I am sure beyond a doubt that Henry got the mother of all Golden Parachutes to sail away into oblivion . Henry has launched Care Moat , which is a business designed to save small business as much as 40% in health care costs , it is designed for business with 1-500 people . Leave it to Henry to take peoples health care away . So his red horns have survived intact from his trying to destroy Gibson from partnering with Metastafolius himself (that's who he got his own red horns from ) This was one major weirdo , who invented robo tuners and crap like that and he probably had some scam going to try to build a guitar that would play itself for the musically challenged . Like something on X Box or Sony Play Station . Let me go back to the robo tuners for a second . From when I was in Kindergarten when I took up Violin and then Cello , one of the first things we were taught was how to tune the instrument , yes we were giving pitchpipes (violin is E A D G ) ( cello is C D G A ) The point I am making is we were taught at that early age how to listen with our ears and then use our ears in how to tune an instrument . Guitar is no different as I was giving a 440 A tuning fork when I started taking lessons ,until I got a BOSS Tuner . You want to piss people off play out of tune ! That whole debacle and I mean major debacle of the "True Historic's" starting in 2015 which caused the prices of an R9 to go from $6299 to $8499 was all Henry . Including making Authentic and Authorized dealers pony up $100,000 grand for the privilage of carrying the flagship Gibson Custom line . Dealers were dropping left and right including Dave's Guitars where I got my first Historic R9 in 2014 . I was not drinking the Kool Aid of the more accurate plastics ( can you imagine for a second ? freaking plastic ? really ? ) , the more accurate top carve , the hand rolled finger board binding (that's a load as well for my small brain as well , as if I can feel a difference ? ) , the hand sanded wet finishes . I did get into arguments with folks over this stuff as it is a natural defense mechanism to defend ones purchases and to justify them . One of my arguments was the Gibson Custom Shop Custombucker pickups . Were they improved ? Were they closer to the vaunted Holy Grail of the Vintage PAF pickups ? As in to my pea brain it still boils down to the TONE of the instrument . The Custombucker pickups SUCK BIG TIME , with the weak and anemic A3 magnets ( and the magnets and the wire come from over seas , and we were talking about that the previous day ) To me they are like hospital food in weak and bland and devoid of any flavor or taste . Why does Gibson Custom do this you may ask ? The answer is that with a weak and vanilla and bland pickup , they don't favor one style of voice over another , where they are middle of the road bland . Really ? , You pay all that money for a guitar that sounds like ass ? I stumbled upon ThroBak pickups from having a bad set of Crapbuckers that squealed to no end that just flat out annoyed me to no end and I had to fix them or the R8 was going to be firewood . Everything for me has not been a bed of roses or peaches and cream , I have had issues with Gibson from time to time , as nothing is perfect . Yet , that sound is in my DNA as when it works there is nothing else like it at all . You want to get a good laugh ? The Custombucker pickups are only for sale by Gibson Custom only if you by a Gibson Custom R series guitar or the new Murphy Lab Historics . Tom Murphy the master craftsman / artisan that formerly hand aged the guitars with his razor blade made check marks ( oh yeah that 's what I am into - NOT ) Now he has along with Gibson Custom a proprietary ownership of a secret nitro lacquer formula that is designed to mirror the appearance of a vintage instrument that has lacquer checking and looks old and vintage . Which for me is a load as I am not into that sort of thing . Now there is a market for that as a pricepoint for whom someone that wants the appearance of a vintage burst but doesn't have a spare $400,000 laying around gets the next best thing in a Murphy Lab aged Les Paul R9 . For me if I am forking over that kind of coin I wan't it in pristine brand new factory condition , same as when you buy a brand new automobile . Imagine going to a car dealership and being offered a reliced / aged car ? Like what was it wrecked ? This kind of thing gets my dander up , but to each there own I guess . Have I piled on enough ?
    Now with the new lacquer formula I forgot to mention that it is a team effort as he trained a whole team on this aging business . Before he was a one man operation . Folks are saying that the hand aged with the razor by the man himself are far more valuable as they are total Murphy relics , versus now of the team effort Murphy Lab . Out of curiosity have you played a guitar with the "crapbuckers" ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  11. GregM

    GregM Well-Known Member

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    I love Henry, cause I love my 89 standard...
    So neeer
     
  12. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

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    have i played one? i cant say that i have honestly. im not up on which gibson pickups are which. a lot of them to me sound a like
    or reasonably in the same ball park. ive been more of a Duncan guy for hard rock/blues and dimarzio for shred type stuff.
    im trying to learn them though.

    i can see why the hand relic is more valuable than the team efforts. i myself would consider them more valuable too.
    wont be long before a machine can do it off of about 30 different patterns and be able to mix those patterns up to get
    thousands of different other patterns. if its not here already its coming i bet. to me hand done will always be more impressive
    than machine though on certain things. as a stupid example lets say a painting. you can imagine the hard work of the artist
    and how much of himself he put into the art and with the higher risk factors over a machine pulling off the same work.
     
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  13. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

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    Thank You for the correction as I googled it and could not find it . This whole relic business started back in the mid 90's with Fender Custom Shop with Keith Richards , whom I can't recall the master builders name who took the specs of some of Keith's Telecaster like Micawber for example and built a Telecaster for Mr. Richards who promptly rejected as it looked to new and shiney -true story and thus the whole craze of Relic/aged guitars was born . For me No Thanks !
     
  14. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

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    Darn tooting right 1,000,000 % As it was late 80's and rock guitar was hurting ,by first all of the punk stuff , then the techno craze and then here comes Slash with his Top Hat and his Max Les Paul and that first Guns album was and is magic !
     
  15. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

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    Yup, big time . Work done by hand will always command a higher price . I am sure there are engineers working behind the scenes already . Companies are always trying to cut corners to maximize profits for the CEO and the Board of Directors .
     
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  16. PowerTube44

    PowerTube44 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If there's a market for a certain product, I don't blame companies in the least for providing that product.

    It would have been more accurate to say that I hate the fact that the whole "relic" nonsense ever caught traction in the first place. They have naive kids believing that an old guitar that's been beaten to hell is somehow "better" than a shiny new one with a warranty. But even if that was the case, "beating" it from the factory wouldn't be the same.

    People buy old Marshalls because they love the sound, not because they've been abused. Can you even imagine Marshall issuing, say, a Super Bass with ripped Tolex, missing the logo, and cigarette burns on the front panel and claiming that it gives it more "mojo?"
     
  17. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

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    Or if you offer her money for some work on the side and then she acts all uppity and tells you if you want that you have to go to so and so .
     
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  18. LPMarshall hack

    LPMarshall hack Well-Known Member

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    For the love of God...paragraphs!!!!
     
  19. GregM

    GregM Well-Known Member

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    Omgnextyouwillpickonpeoplewhodontusespaces!
     
  20. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

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    roflmao. i tend to be just as bad at times.
     

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