Whats the best Marshall out there, and diferences between different amps?

[Dawis67]

Yeah, my 4th topic on amplifiers, but i decided all of the previous ones are uselsess. Im most likely gonna go for what i want and recomendations wont work. So, invite every senior member you know because i wana know what is the best marshall you can buy. When i say best, i mean which amp gives the highest versatility to sound like other amps. Im generally interested in old rock sound, but then again i dont want to be bounded to it. I want to be able to play maybe metal version of pop songs. Also blowing cash on H&K is not smart as i been playing since March.

What im REALLY wondering about is what is the difference between JVM410, JVM210, and DSL? Why JVM410 costs so darn much compared to DSL100H? What is the diference, in sound, tone, power, versatility, etc?

Also im not Slash and im not Steve Vai, and i still practice home. Is combo the smartest way to go? Can i hook 4x12 1960 cab to for example JVM410C? Will it work? Because i might need to move to different school and i weight is an issue.

How quiet can i play 100W amp while maintaining good sound? If i bought a combo, can i play in my bedroom and still be able to play on medium/big stage and maybe even hook up additional cab?

I hope this will be the last topic i will have to make, and you smart guys out there can explain this stuff to me, because the more i think of this and research this, more confused i get.

I dont have any set buget so feel free to recommend what sounds best.

 

[Swede]

 

[Jethro Rocker]

When you say recommendations don't work then ask for our opinion, well, seems kimda pointless then to us, huh??
Versatility it's obvious the 4 channel JVM can sound like more amps, so to speak, because there are 4 channels with 3 modes per channel. Just look 'em up. The feature list will describe all the differences.
Then it should be obvious why a JVM4 is more loot than a DSL not to mention that the DSL is made in Asia to reduce costs.
You can hook up 4x12 cabs to combos as well.
Sound wise, well, that's where it's very, very subjective. You have to actually listen to them. I think a combo is plenty for most everything except stadiums yet a 4x12 can absolutely work in a smaller venue at lower volumes. Ya gotta try stuff and compare features first!!

 

[Adrian R]

That is nearly impossible to answer without a TON of qualifiers...

Determine a budget, what you want to do and then you can *begin* to somewhat narrow the list...

One thing to remember...all, all tube Marshall amps sound very similar...

 

[newplayeroldguy]

yep

 

[tubes]

Hi Dawis,

Seems to me that Marshalls are not really made to 'sound like other amps'.
But some Marshalls are, from what I hear members talking about, quite versatile.

I would expect that a DSL or TSL provides a lot of versatility for a good price.

I don't know the JVMs. Never used one.

Re other questions...
> Is combo the smartest way to go? Can i hook 4x12 1960 cab to for example JVM410C? ...still be able to play on medium/big stage

People gig combos all the time. Whether it works well will depend on all the other variables, the room, the stage, how much room there is on the stage, how many people are in the room.

With most Marshall combos you can plug into a bigger cab if you want to.
(You need to check that the impedance is matching.)
__

> How quiet can i play 100W amp while maintaining good sound?
Depends on what you mean by 'good sound'.

I play a 100W VERY quietly sometimes at rehearsal. That would be with un-amplified vocals, un-amplified blues harp.

And I have got compliments about the sound playing that way. But I might have just found some low-volume sweet spots by sheer luck.

It's not how I mainly like to play an amp, and of course the amp is just one ingredient, guitars and pedals make a lot of difference.
__

> the more i think of this and research this, more confused i get.

Sounds to me that you are trying to 'optimize' everything with the purchase of a single amp.
I expect that aim will cause you stress.

Best of luck with your shopping. Let us know what amp you decide to use.

 

[tubes]

One thing to remember...all, all tube Marshall amps sound very similar...

Sounds like you're happy to get into an argument with some members here...

But I wanted to say a similar thing to OP: something like "but if you get any nice Marshall you will have a lot of enjoyment and good sounds. Even if the amp is not optimal and the perfect model for your current situation, the time you spend playing it is time well spent."

Meanwhile, this thread made me wonder: would members here say that the 6100 is the most versatile Marshall?

Just wondering because Dawis mentioned versatility.

 

[Dawis67]

First of all, thank you all for answers. Also i would like to mention that i said it wrong. I want to hear recomendations, but in the end im going to make the choice. My problem is that i dont undertand the difference between the amps and i have no idea why JVM410 costs so much more than DSL100H when hey sound pretty similar.

Regarding the combo,is there a difference regarding the guts of for example JVM410 combo or head? If i was to cut off the speakers, would combo head work the same as legit head? Can i get the same max volume? The biggest i could go is large hall, like 200x100m... In that case, if i chose JVM410combo, with additional 4x12 1960 cab, could i be definently heard over the drums and rest of the stuff without miking the amps (altho in large hall situation that would be less likel).

What i want from my amps is versatility, being able to play largest variety of sounds from a MARSHALL amp (no other). In that case JVM410 seems best option, but what do you think?

 

[Adrian R]

Sounds like you're happy to get into an argument with some members here...

No, not at all man...I prefer to refer to them as *debates*..if you so choose...

Subjectivity aside, all Marshalls share a common voice man...variations indeed, but in the end...a Marshall sounds like a Marshall to some degree...at least in my experience.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

The JVM is the most versatile of the amps mentioned, by far. The combo is the same as the head with added speakers. Most larger venues would have a large PA therefore miking the amps. A DSL40C for example, is plenty loud enough to kill any drummer if it's placed accordingly.
A JVM 410 with or without extension cab is far more than enough to be heard over a drummer. Last show I did in a smaller to medium bar, used the 6101, a 100w 1x12 combo with a 1x12 extension. Had volume around 9 - 10 oclock and I was definitely loud enough for the venue. Definitely.
Another example, as the volume pots taper differently, etc. I was at an outdoor show last month using the 50 watt 2x12 Silver Jube. It has to hit above halfway before it starts to punch. I had the volume on just under 6 out of 10 and the monitor mix guy bitched a little about the volume. I should have been able to get good monitors at that level but I'm digressing... it was loud. Plenty, and it was outside.

Part of the reason for the price difference you see is that the DSL 100, an excellent amp with excellent tone, is made in Vietnam with way cheaper labour, and an HDF shell instead of plywood. There may be some internal differences in terms of components, won't get into that here. It's to keep the price down so more people can afford it. It has some shared controls between channels where the 410 has individual controls for each channel.
Believe me when I say, if ypu haven't played a 25 plus watt tube amp ever, it will be eye opening. Yhe volume and ability to flap your pantlegs is astounding! There is nothing wrong with usong a 100 watt amp in smaller venues, I've done so many times. It's just that you don't NEED to run a 100 watt, 4x12 rig to play most gigs although many members use one anyways, different tone and more headroom.

 

[Dawis67]

The JVM is the most versatile of the amps mentioned, by far. The combo is the same as the head with added speakers. Most larger venues would have a large PA therefore miking the amps. A DSL40C for example, is plenty loud enough to kill any drummer if it's placed accordingly.
A JVM 410 with or without extension cab is far more than enough to be heard over a drummer. Last show I did in a smaller to medium bar, used the 6101, a 100w 1x12 combo with a 1x12 extension. Had volume around 9 - 10 oclock and I was definitely loud enough for the venue. Definitely.
Another example, as the volume pots taper differently, etc. I was at an outdoor show last month using the 50 watt 2x12 Silver Jube. It has to hit above halfway before it starts to punch. I had the volume on just under 6 out of 10 and the monitor mix guy bitched a little about the volume. I should have been able to get good monitors at that level but I'm digressing... it was loud. Plenty, and it was outside.

Part of the reason for the price difference you see is that the DSL 100, an excellent amp with excellent tone, is made in Vietnam with way cheaper labour, and an HDF shell instead of plywood. There may be some internal differences in terms of components, won't get into that here. It's to keep the price down so more people can afford it. It has some shared controls between channels where the 410 has individual controls for each channel.
Believe me when I say, if ypu haven't played a 25 plus watt tube amp ever, it will be eye opening. Yhe volume and ability to flap your pantlegs is astounding! There is nothing wrong with usong a 100 watt amp in smaller venues, I've done so many times. It's just that you don't NEED to run a 100 watt, 4x12 rig to play most gigs although many members use one anyways, different tone and more headroom.

Thanks for the response. That was just what i was looking for.

So if i was to connect 412 1960cab+212 1963cab to JVM410C, it would be exactly the same as fullstack (1960cab) JVM410H?

Part of a reason why i want head+cab is because it looks cooler than combo, but if it does the same job, it would be much better for me to choose combo instead of halfstack with head.

Again, thanks

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Well I wouldn't connect both of those cabs with the built in speakers, the impedance would not work. You don't need to start thinking about full stacks yet, man! It looks cooler but you need to worry about learning to play. If you can budget a head and a 4x12 cab, go ahead. Very likely overkill but it won't hurt other than it's very bulky.
Or, start with a combo and add a 2x12 or 4x12 later. It's really overkill. The combo is very loud and very heavy. You can add a closed back cab later but whatever works for you. A full stack, though cool and some members here use 'em all the time, is completely beyond what you would need at this stage and they were technically designed for stadium use. Cart before the horse!
A good, or great, tube amp is an excellent investment but you need to invest tons of time playing. On anything. Just play! ,

 

[EADGBE]

I would expect that a DSL or TSL provides a lot of versatility for a good price.

Yes I love these amps. They have an all tube signal path. They're also easy to bias. The TSL series especially so. Also they use EL34s. These tubes are very musical. I like the 50 and 60 watt versions respectfully because you can play them at home without losing your hearing. The JVM205H is probably a good amp too.

 

[marshallmellowed]

OK, lets put this all in perspective. You've been playing for less than a year, you had a crappy MG series Marshall and now you want something better, right? The JVM series is by far the most versatile, but jumping from an MG series to a JVM is quite a big step in both amp and cost. JVM combos are also heavy as hell. I would just pick up a DSL40C at this stage in the game, many of the more experienced players seem quite happy with them, and it sounds like you need something portable. Just my opinion.

 

[tubes]

Go Jethro.
If there was a Like button...

 

[tubes]

Part of a reason why i want head+cab is because it looks cooler than combo, but if it does the same job, it would be much better for me to choose combo instead of halfstack with head.

Again, thanks

I always thought combos looked cool: especially the 1 x 12s.
And especially if they sounded great.
When it's good it's like magic: so much great sound from a tiny box!

Seems to me you have to pick your battles with this: some people go away from 4 x 12 cabs because they gig regularly and don't own a large vehicle.

For me, I like the big cabs because we have a large band: many vocalists, keys, percussionists, horns if we can get them.
(And it's not my job to put the gear into the van and then deploy it on stage.)

Just saying: there are a lot of possible reasons for preferring one rig over another.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Yes, starting out with a 40C is a great amp. I own one. I use it. I like it. If budget allows, you can't really go wrong with a JVM. A combo is a great amp everything has it's limitations but at your stage, any of these would be killer.
Like button : tubes and marshallmellowed.

 

[chiliphil1]

Yeah, my 4th topic on amplifiers, but i decided all of the previous ones are uselsess. Im most likely gonna go for what i want and recomendations wont work. So, invite every senior member you know because i wana know what is the best marshall you can buy. When i say best, i mean which amp gives the highest versatility to sound like other amps. Im generally interested in old rock sound, but then again i dont want to be bounded to it. I want to be able to play maybe metal version of pop songs. Also blowing cash on H&K is not smart as i been playing since March.

That statement sorta contradicts itself doesn't it? If you ask my opinion, the best Marshall you can buy is a 1959, either an SLP, a HW, or a YJM like I have. The most versatile Marshall is the JVM.

What im REALLY wondering about is what is the difference between JVM410, JVM210, and DSL? Why JVM410 costs so darn much compared to DSL100H? What is the diference, in sound, tone, power, versatility, etc?

Ok, so the 410 has 4 channels and 100 watts, the 210 has 2 channels and 100 watts, and the DSL has 2 channels and 100 watts. The huge price difference comes from the fact that the DSL is made in Vietnam and the JVM series are English made. The JVM has 3 modes per channel, meaning that on the 210 you get 6 different sounds and on the 410 you get 12. The DSL has 2 modes per channel meaning a total of 4 sounds, difference is that on the JVM you can change from one mode to another via footswitch and the DSL you cannot. If you go JVM get the 410, the crunch and OD1 channel make the extra money worth it. As far as sounding like other amps, it sorta can on OD2, that channel is supposed to be Mesa based but in the end a Marshall will sound like a Marshall. If you go this route get a used one because they can be had for about $1200 +/-

Also im not Slash and im not Steve Vai, and i still practice home. Is combo the smartest way to go? Can i hook 4x12 1960 cab to for example JVM410C? Will it work? Because i might need to move to different school and i weight is an issue.

As long as you match the impedance (ohms) then yes you can run a cabinet with a 410c, however the combo is going to be what? 60 pounds? not something "portable" by my definition. It would probably be easier to get the H and then a 2x12 to go with it, but remember, 4x12's have wheels!

How quiet can i play 100W amp while maintaining good sound? If i bought a combo, can i play in my bedroom and still be able to play on medium/big stage and maybe even hook up additional cab?

The modern heads like these 3 are fine at low volume, you do not have to crank them like the old school Marshall's. These amps use pre amp distortion to get their sound and that does not require volume, of course it sounds better loud but it sounds good quiet as well, as above yes you can hook a cabinet up to the combo and have a 6x12 set up.

I hope this will be the last topic i will have to make, and you smart guys out there can explain this stuff to me, because the more i think of this and research this, more confused i get.

Go to the store and play them! If you can't do that use youtube, granted the sound on there will not be 100% accurate but if you watch the official Marshall demo videos of the amps they are a pretty good representation and should give you an idea.

I dont have any set buget so feel free to recommend what sounds best.

Answers in red.

I'll also add, just starting out the JVM may be more than you need, I would never tell someone to get a small one and work up but then perhaps you would be happier with something more simplistic. I would think the DSL and a 4x12 should do anything you need it to, unless you just WANT a JVM which is fine also.

 

[Dawis67]

Answers in red.

I'll also add, just starting out the JVM may be more than you need, I would never tell someone to get a small one and work up but then perhaps you would be happier with something more simplistic. I would think the DSL and a 4x12 should do anything you need it to, unless you just WANT a JVM which is fine also.

So many great answers, but im just gonna quote this one and everybody can answer.

I would much rather go for JVM210H/JVM410H than a combo. But the fact that next hear is the last year at my current school and after that i will have to move to collage, i dont want to have to worry about heavy 4x12 and a head. For the person who suggested head and 2x12, you got 2 objects that weigh over 20kg, when a combo is 35kg and is one object.

If getting JVM410C and hooking 4x12 to it will make me POSSIBLY louder than somebody with JVM410H and 4x12 im going with combo. Looks and proportions for my OCD might not be there, but in the end its the sound that matters...

For people who are saying i might wana go on budget, i dont think i want to upgrade year after year...Well maybe not that often. I want to get something that will hold for longer time and in the end is more practical. I might get some financial help from my dad so budget is not much of a concern, but i also dont want to spend money on something that will not make much difference.

From what i understood JVM210 could be great option, as its a bit cheaper, but then again, its bit cheaper, so why not go for fully optional 410. See this is what is confusing. I dont have a music store anywhere within 400km range and the one store that i have 120km away has some blackstar/vox and other crappy cheap amps... I dont want to compromise in sound but i also want it to be easily transportable...35kg isnt exactly light, but its easier to carry arround than DSL head+2x12.

 

[dreyn77]

dude, you will need to do some exercise in life. so lifting some heavier weights is needed for good muscle growth and feeling alive and great! (lifted correctly of course )

do you like to bend over and touch your toes every 2 minutes?
If you play the combo, that's what you'll be doing when you're learning to use the thing.

you don't lie on the floor but the amps do.

BUT you may own furniture. which you may place the combo ontop of.

Oh by the way the DSL amp was made 10 years earlier than the JVM.
hello! 10 years is a LONG TIME IN BUSINESS. of course the price difference is there, as it should be.

personally, you've gotta decide to either buy the most uptodate general famous BRAND product with mass appeal but not suited to you (but you don't know that yet)
OR
you take home a cheapass POC just to get you started and with some playing you'll then know in the future after college which product you really want.

cause right now the amp world has exploded with massive choice. the choices available are extremely complicated and it takes some serious experience to find the amp for you.


OR
you could just follow an industry pro and buy their gear and trust their judgement and skill and after a while you'll grow into it.
you will eventually get to their level.

so you need to roughly decide how much 'clean sound' playing you'll be doing?
how much copying that past sounds you'll be doing?
how much 'gainy' sounds you'll be making?
how close do you want to be to another celebrities sound?
how far do you want to push the sound to the extremes of what's possible today?


marshall has a rough trademark type of sound which is defineable.

you might find it 'limiting' for you or you may not.

if you don't want to be limited to sounding like 1000 bands, then you should look to buy another product.

you can't get experience overnight. it's gonna take years for you to think about stuff.

if you decide you want to sound similar to the past 40 years of music then the marshall product is the way to go.

but if you decide you want to have 'the best of today' and run with the guys who have massive experience and the items that they've built, then I think you're lookin at EVH product.

it's a product made today but looking to the future. it's not looking back to the 'good ol days' of sound.

VH's has put out all those combos cause he knows being the biggest guitar player that he is, the combo is the most used item in the stable.

it shows his super knowledge.

you can't ignore the EVH.

the demo amp of choice at the Melbourne guitar show, and was in almost all display booths, was the EVH combo.

AND it has the tilt angle supports so the sound hits YOU in the head.

the mini amps are probably what you need but they're all comming with discusting prices.

you've still gotta decide if you like to hear the sound of fingers slipping on the strings which result from playing a chord to playing another chord, with the sound of high gain and sensitive amps. you will hear every squeal noise at loud volume.

if you hate that sound, it might mean you endup with a mesa amp, or a vintage marshall amp.

so you've got some more research to do before you take money out of the bank.

if you want to play clean you're much better off the play vintage gear. you'll get the WARM NOTES of the valve amp. the sole reason to use a valve amp.

all other sounds don't require valves to be in the amp. you'll get better trebles without the valves.

just go mode 4 in that case.

don't use BS 80's techniques in 2015, they've been superseeded by the amp makers.

If you wanted the best megadeth main sound from 1990's (not the solo sound) and you bought the amps they played in the 1990's, you'd be a foolish person today.

marshall made their best version of 'that sound' and put it in the mode 4 amp.

If you want the solo sound from them, then you'll need a valve amp, cause it's gonna make the warm notes for you.

people need to move on from the 80's and start living today. get the way the best experts know how to make. don't buy some idiot who just happens to be in a band, way of making sounds.

they were always wrong!