What Next?

[tallcoolone]

Has modeling improved much since the Kemper?

Never had a Kemper but I gigged Fractal and Helix for years. I would bet my house that no one could discern tubes from the modeling I’ve used live.

Wouldn't that just be the SV20?

No, I have the SV and I’ve owned several Super Leads—original and reissue—and several mid 70s JMPs. IMO the SV is a nice approximation of the SL, a JMP is brighter and more aggressive as you said.

 

[PowerTube44]

I still believe that modeling will get there someday. It's already grown by leaps and bounds and the stuff out today is pretty amazing. But someday, someone will completely and totally nail it. It'll be something insane, like maybe 256-bit processing and some other yet-to-be-invented enhancements.

I believe they'll someday get there where it really can replace a tube amp.

 

[playloud]

No, I have the SV and I’ve owned several Super Leads—original and reissue—and several mid 70s JMPs. IMO the SV is a nice approximation of the SL, a JMP is brighter and more aggressive as you said.

Possibly a confusion of terminology. By "JMP", I assumed you were referring to post-plexi Super Leads (e.g. 1970).

 

[PelliX]

If Marshall ditch the Code and turn out a new SS head featuring their entire collection modelled to sound that good with your speaker collection then that will sell like no other SS head they have done and maybe even sit right up there with some of their best.

I hear ya. But isn't that ... what the CODE was supposed to do in the first place? I'd still expect the 'die hards' to stick to the valves. I'm willing to give new things a shot, but no solid state system has convinced me for *guitar* amplification. Yet.

 

[wakjob]

Not in my lifetime
As orhers mentioned, i found my tone in my amp quiver
Ac30, 2210, 4100, 1987x, budda twinmaster
My tones are covered

I'm sorry to hear that you are in your end days

 

[Crikey]

I am beyond the young mans game of chasing tone. Knowing what you want and like is an acquired skill. Good luck in your search

 

[Maxbrothman]

I hear ya. But isn't that ... what the CODE was supposed to do in the first place? I'd still expect the 'die hards' to stick to the valves. I'm willing to give new things a shot, but no solid state system has convinced me for *guitar* amplification. Yet.

Standing in front of a cab or playing a tube amp is very different. Amp response differs, and guitar cabs are directional, not wide beam like FRFR. All you need to do is step a few feet to the left or right, and you will experience the difference with guitar cabs. Sound changes as well as the volume of air hitting you. FRFR also has air hitting you, but it feels different, and there is less of a change to the sound when you move.

Tube amps tend to be variable even between identical heads. Same heads, different dialing to get the same tone. Modelers are digital and exactly the same. SS can vary because of the circuitry involved but far less than tube amps. Even the tubes matter.

One massive advantage modelers have is that since it's digital, you don't get all these problems with power cables, pedal circuits, and leads creating additional noise, which can be a pain to sort out if you are into switching around pedals and amps.

I am neither for nor against either one in the end. I am glad to have the options.

I ask myself why I am not that impressed to buy a CODE. I don't know, except everything I have been hearing and reading tells me that there are other options on the market doing Marshall tones better than Marshall can with the CODE. I also noticed Marshall isn't making the CODE head anymore. You have to buy the combo. I guess they just couldn't get the head to work well with any cab of choice and that their selected speaker works best. Line6 Catalyst is doing the same. However, Katana does have a head with voicing options for your cabinet. I think all that indicates they can do better and who knows, maybe that is what they are trying to do.

 

[PelliX]

Standing in front of a cab or playing a tube amp is very different. Amp response differs, and guitar cabs are directional, not wide beam like FRFR. All you need to do is step a few feet to the left or right, and you will experience the difference with guitar cabs. Sound changes as well as the volume of air hitting you. FRFR also has air hitting you, but it feels different, and there is less of a change to the sound when you move.

Yes, absolutely.

Tube amps tend to be variable even between identical heads. Same heads, different dialing to get the same tone. Modelers are digital and exactly the same. SS can vary because of the circuitry involved but far less than tube amps. Even the tubes matter.

Yep, valves are less predictable, more prone exhibit changes due to differences in temperature, AC voltage, etc.

One massive advantage modelers have is that since it's digital, you don't get all these problems with power cables, pedal circuits, and leads creating additional noise, which can be a pain to sort out if you are into switching around pedals and amps.

Totally!

I ask myself why I am not that impressed to buy a CODE. I don't know, except everything I have been hearing and reading tells me that there are other options on the market doing Marshall tones better than Marshall can with the CODE. I also noticed Marshall isn't making the CODE head anymore. You have to buy the combo. I guess they just couldn't get the head to work well with any cab of choice and that their selected speaker works best. Line6 Catalyst is doing the same. However, Katana does have a head with voicing options for your cabinet. I think all that indicates they can do better and who knows, maybe that is what they are trying to do.

Well, the CODE seemingly does a 'mediocre at best' emulation of their amps. The speakers in the combos are pretty poor. The 100W head was a flop to start with. They envisioned stage usage, whereas it's more the bedroom kind of line. The construction quality is a bad joke - they're almost as bodged together as the Spark amps, but the Sparks have better tones (haven't played with a Spark first hand, but this is the concensus it would appear). The Katanas are honestly something I would like to try. BOSS *generally* won't put their name on shit. I've been a Roland/BOSS fan boy ever since my early teenage years and apart from some "design" that I just can't dig, they deliver.

If you pointed a gun at my head and sent me to a desert island with one and only one amp and it had to be solid state, I'd go Katana.

If I were playing jazz, I might well go with a Roland or other solid state amp. Downright heavy metal the same. My problem (eh, problem?) is that I'm a sort of 'edge of breakup', 'bit of crunch' kinda guy. And that smooth transition between the two is something I can't quite get from anything SS. I love a TS. I love a RAT. But I need to push them through a valve amp to 'round them off', if you know what I mean. There are those people like Brian May who can milk these tones out of SS, but I can't. My fault? Probably.

 

[Bamarado]

Has modeling improved much since the Kemper? I know extrapolating technological progress linearly is a fool's game, but I feel like the direction should at least be more optimistic at this point. It's been over 10 years!




The different eras is a cool idea. I hope they don't reissue any bass circuits though! That's the only thing keeping the vintage versions (somewhat) more affordable than their lead counterparts.



Wouldn't that just be the SV20? From what I've heard, it's brighter and more aggressive than your typical early 70s 50/100W, let alone a plexi.

Short term, not really. I'm talking 20+ more years down the line. Maybe nothing has been better than the Kemper the last 10 years, but in the 2050, 2060 etc there's no telling what the tech will be. It's pretty inevitable that eventually, most players will have never even seen a tube amp and play exclusively through a modelling program/amp. Our tube loving generations won't last forever.

 

[playloud]

Short term, not really. I'm talking 20+ more years down the line. Maybe nothing has been better than the Kemper the last 10 years, but in the 2050, 2060 etc there's no telling what the tech will be. It's pretty inevitable that eventually, most players will have never even seen a tube amp and play exclusively through a modelling program/amp. Our tube loving generations won't last forever.

I'd hope there's some "boom and bust" dynamics at play, where if tube amps drop dramatically in popularity and price, a new artist will come along and use them to great effect - thus resuscitating the market!

Ultimately, good tube amps are quality items, regardless of what alternatives might exist at a given moment.

 

[junk notes]

The different eras is a cool idea. I hope they don't reissue any bass circuits though! That's the only thing keeping the vintage versions (somewhat) more affordable than their lead counterparts.

oh no!? I do not want to see or hear that these amps are getting more and more expensive and prods you over to the 50 and 100 watt heads!
edit: Love Superbass', because I play loud @playloud !

 

[junk notes]

How about a Studio metal panel JMP???

As I mentioned about the older amp circuits, perhaps a studio metalface. The studio vintage according to Marshall, is off the JMP. If they made a studio 69 1959 metalface, I would buy it now!

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Katana is a solid state running into regular guitar speakers.

If Marshall ditch the Code and turn out a new SS head featuring their entire collection modelled to sound that good with your speaker collection then that will sell like no other SS head they have done and maybe even sit right up there with some of their best.

They need to do that to deliver something to rival Kempers and Helix but from Marshall.

My opinion only.

Yeah the JMD could be updated.
Katana sounds pretty good for what it is.
I recently got a BluGuitar Amp1 Iridium. While it does contain a single nanotube, I wouldn't really consider it a tube amp.
Thing sounds just great for high gain! Pedal platform, 100 watts, 3 channel. Analog! Not a digital modeler.
Also tried a HnK Black Spirit 200. I liked it. Very good amp. Analog as well.
Perhaps some analog / digital JMD type thing, even with a tube power supply on some.

 

[tallcoolone]

Possibly a confusion of terminology. By "JMP", I assumed you were referring to post-plexi Super Leads (e.g. 1970).

When I say “super lead” I am referencing 100w amps pre-1974 pre-PCB. Jimmy Page live MSG, TSRTS. To me the SV20 is more in this vein. JMP to me means 1974 - 2203/4 circuit. Pretty much all late 70’s classic rock. I’d like to see Marshall put one of these into the Studio series.

Honestly I’ve owned a bunch and played a ton of old Marshalls and IMO 3 of the same model/year can sound night and day from one another. Incredibly inconsistent. But as a general rule, the later the year, the brighter and more aggressive the amp. But who the heck knows lol.

 

[playloud]

When I say “super lead” I am referencing 100w amps pre-1974 pre-PCB. Jimmy Page live MSG, TSRTS. To me the SV20 is more in this vein. JMP to me means 1974 - 2203/4 circuit. Pretty much all late 70’s classic rock. I’d like to see Marshall put one of these into the Studio series.

Honestly I’ve owned a bunch and played a ton of old Marshalls and IMO 3 of the same model/year can sound night and day from one another. Incredibly inconsistent. But as a general rule, the later the year, the brighter and more aggressive the amp. But who the heck knows lol.

Ok, that makes sense.

Minor thing though - JP probably used a Super Bass at MSG:

 

[tallcoolone]

Ok, that makes sense.

Minor thing though - JP probably used a Super Bass at MSG:

Nope, Super Lead, only question is whether it had KT88s or el34s in it. I suppose it could have been converted to a lead spec but I'm pretty sure Doug Roccafote dug up some pics back in the day showing the back panel. If you ever play a bass spec head you will see it can't get that bite he had.

 

[playloud]

Nope, Super Lead, only question is whether it had KT88s or el34s in it. I suppose it could have been converted to a lead spec but I'm pretty sure Doug Roccafote dug up some pics back in the day showing the back panel. If you ever play a bass spec head you will see it can't get that bite he had.

I've got one and with the right pickups/speakers/settings, you certainly can. And that's before you get to wahs, Echoplexes and mixing desks...

 

[tallcoolone]

I've got one and with the right pickups/speakers/settings, you certainly can. And that's before you get to wahs, Echoplexes and mixing desks...

Don’t mean to come off like Know it All Ned lol. That TSRTS tone is something I’ve been chasing for over 30yrs—every old Marshall I’ve ever owned has been in search of that tone. But of course I don’t know shit. I’ve had a few bass spec amps and it wasn’t it—closest I’ve come is an early metal panel fitted with KT88s. So much of that trebly punch he gets is from the sheer power and volume.

Of course I’m a Zep geek so I have all the board tapes of those three shows. I’d bet anything it’s a lead spec amp—I lean towards the big bottle tubes but Doug (a huge Page freak) swears they were el34s. The SV20 does a great job IMO

 

[PowerTube44]

If you pointed a gun at my head and sent me to a desert island with one and only one amp and it had to be solid state, I'd go Katana.

I would go with a mid-2000's Line 6 Flextone II. I have two of those.

 

[tallcoolone]

I would go with a mid-2000's Line 6 Flextone II. I have two of those.

I'd go acoustic--where you finding an outlet on a desert island??