What gives a speaker it's distinctive tone?

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Jethro Rocker, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Just wondering a couple things. I am sure a few people will kmow this. Perhaps @Scumback Speakers will be able to help.
    What makes a V30 sound like a V30 over a T75? Isn't a big ceramic magnet a big ceramic magnet? Is it mainly in the voice coil? Cone?
    I have a pair of old Marsland Alnicos from an old Traynor cab, late 60s to early 70s. They were reconed years ago with Celestion coils. No idea what the power handling would be, I would suspect no more than 25 watts given the vintage?

    So that leads to - if one recones a speaker and changes the voice coil can you change the sound of said speaker to be more akin to whatever type of coil was installed? I know the basket will affect it some.
    Just curious.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Valvelust

    Valvelust Well-Known Member

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  3. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    The articles refer to hi fi audio speakers which would be similar in some ways but one tends to not want flat response with guitars. Also no dedicated frequency drivers with guitar. If one is to recone them with different voice coils, how much change could you expect?
     
  4. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Well-Known Member

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    In a nutshell...magnet weight, magnet type, cone type (75 of 55hz), smooth or ribbed cone (round or sharper raised ribs), suspension / spider stiffness, doping (how thick, how much, where) and large or small dust cap.

    Then you have variations that make a lot of differences in tone. Not a hard, set, fast answer.
     
  5. Valvelust

    Valvelust Well-Known Member

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    What is your opinion of frame? and cone material?
     
  6. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    So everythjng essentially!! Thanks. Thus a V30 with it's spikey high mids has many subtle differences from T75. Got it. Interesting stuff.
     
  7. rick16v

    rick16v Well-Known Member

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    And people say tone is in the hands :blah:
     
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  8. fitz288

    fitz288 Apprentice Fermi's Paradox Analyst Silver Supporting Member

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    OK, the question that comes to my mind is, can you take the beloved Seventy-80, and do some kind of re-cone to make it NOT a Seventy-80, for less money than buying something other than a Seventy-80?
     
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  9. Valvelust

    Valvelust Well-Known Member

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    Then add what and how the speaker is driven.
    Cabinet size, design, material.

    The design and material of instrument, strings if a stringed instrument, any effects in and the signal chain itself.............and "The Hands"
    Then mix everything all together and ask "which speaker is best"??? geez!

    The final sound is not just as basic as one tries to make it...... That's what always floors me about people "chasing the sound"
     
  10. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Yeah especially when the tone has been recorded!
    Changing out speakers in same cab, at least all the cab variables are the same as are the source. I was just curious if reconing could make one speaker sound a bit more like another.

    As for the power handling of those old Marslands, no one knows. Just be careful!
     
  11. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Righto. Those old Traynors sound similar to the V30 without ABing it. Not as much low end, not as punchy. All I know is he used 16 ohm Celestion coils.
     
  12. GIBSON67

    GIBSON67 Well-Known Member

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    That is one huge Alnico magnet speaker, looks like a P12L! And wasn't Marsland made by Jensen Canada or something?

    Also the voice coil gap comes into play, some are tighter than others :naughty:! And many other little factors not mentioned...
    But, yes everything affects the speaker tone...
     
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  13. IOSEPHVS

    IOSEPHVS Well-Known Member

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    Virtually every aspect of a speaker, and more, contributes to its individual timbre: the diameter, the mass and magnetic composition of the driver, the cone composition, the size and composition of the voice coil, the enclosure, etc.
     
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  14. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    V30 have 444 bass cones, but are tuned to 75hz... :shrug:

    Not sure how that adds to the formula, but evidently, that's part of the magic formula for those.
     
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  15. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Well-Known Member

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    Frame just holds the cone/coil/etc and is not really a factor in the tone. I only use paper cones, not hemp, etc so I am not going to comment on something I don't use. There are different cone stamps for 55 and 75hz cones. I use four different ones (two of each) for their different sonic properties, then vary those with cone/doping treatments to produce different output tones.

    RE: 70/80 I'm not sure if it's a standard G12M/G12H type frame for coil size and cone, so I can't tell you if it can be rebuilt to something else.

    I know the G12M-70 can't be as it uses a 1.5" voice coil, not the standard 1.75" voice coil.
     
  16. rick16v

    rick16v Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the nationality of the people who assemble them. Very important.
     
  17. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Yeah they are big puppies. I will guess a 20 to 25 watt handling as they were from a late 60s 4x12. Made by Jensen you think? I have never foumd good info on old Traynor drivers.
    Jeez it looks just like a P12L
    Stock pic of P12L

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    The plates and bell on that thing are massive. Holy crap, they didn't skimp on materials back then.

    And I wonder what is up with the speckled cone.
     
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  19. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    For sure! Again, bottom speckled one is stock pic, mine is the first one. No speckles on mine. Bottom one almost looks rubber!!
     
  20. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    That cone looks to have a pretty coarse texture to it. I forget where at the moment, but I have read that a more textured cone material acts to diffuse resonances (peaks) in the cone. I would think that matters less for lower frequencies and more for upper frequencies. I wonder about the what and why in the speckling of that cone. It is probably just highlights from the sun on the rough texture.
     
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