Vintage Modern Settings, Tubes?

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by rbb2245, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. rbb2245

    rbb2245 New Member

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    I have a 2266C that I am trying to get along with. Right now it is very bright , even with the treble & presence off. It has Tung Sol KT66's and stock Marshall preamp tubes, except a NOS "E" in V1. Don't know anything about that tube. I am thinking of retubing with all Gold Lion, power & preamp, but that would be expensive. I'm willing to do it if it will make this amp shine. Any suggestions?
    Setting questions; How are you using this amp.
    1.) On the Low range with pedals for dirt/solos?
    2.) On the High range using your guitar volume for clean dirty, etc?
    3.) Mid boost on?
    4.) Mid boost off?
    I bought this amp because I no longer have my JTM 45 or my 2203. I thought it would be a good mix of both, which it is. However I'm not in love with the tone or the distortion at this point. Help me love this amp!!!
     
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  2. Mystic38

    Mystic38 Well-Known Member

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    I have not found the VM to be overly bright at all, unless by choice..

    Some questions and some rambling thoughts...
    1. do you have the correct G12C speakers in the combo?.. should be custom jimi hendrix greenbacks
    2. what is your primary guitar?.. strat?.LP?..other

    and now the rambling..
    a) The 2266C does sound a little thinner due to the smaller cab volume for the 212..ie the 2266 running through a Germino OB 212 with GB's sounds much fuller...perhaps slave the amp into a cab you have used previously?
    b) for classic 70's tones with an LP i run in LDR, detail about 8, body about 5 mid/treble at 7 and bass 3-4, and presence about 5.. reverb is low..about 1 or less.. any type of clean boost will give enough OD tones without an OD pedal shifting the tone all over the place imo.
    c) for 80's sounds in HDR, in my case body and detail keep the same ratio but finite number depends on your guitars output.. I often run 2 clean boosts, one (lazy) for a level change from strat>LP and one for boost.. the HDR in particular s well suited to riding the volume knob i think
    d) most issues with tone on VM with users have been around use of body/detail.. its essentially a two knob version of the 4 input.. it is really easy to get boomy flub crap, or no well, body.. so perhaps test to ensure that each knob actually does something?.. when i change guitar, or bring it out after a while, i add detail to get the gain level set, and then add body to suit, and typically they are never the same setting.
    e) master should be on 4 minimum.. if you are bedroom setting at 1 or 2 the amp is snoozing and for sure wont be good listening experience.

    sure other users will chime in, but if you need something more detailed i can pull it out and plug it in..

    cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  3. rbb2245

    rbb2245 New Member

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    I play a Les Paul mainly. A Strat on some songs. I did just check the bias. It was not bad. Around 41. I changed it to 40, which is 70% at a plate voltage of 435. I also swapped out all the preamp tubes. Tung Sol in V1, JJ 883 in V2 & V3 and a Sovtek LPS in V4. This made a huge difference. The tone is much better. It is still very bright though. The settings I ended up of with are Body 5, Detail 10, Treble 0, Mid 5, Bass 3, Presence 0. I am using it mainly in LDR and using pedals. I don't really care for the mid boost. The nice thing about running the gains higher, is that if you do switch to the HDR, the volume jump is not as high. Running them at 5 & 10 is like a boost pedal difference. Of course the gain amount is very subjective to peoples taste. I know people will say, "no wonder it's bright with the Detail on 10", but I should be able to run everything on 10 and not have it so bright. So I'm wondering if the Tung Sol's KT-66's need to go. What power tubes and preamp tubes are you guys using?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  4. rbb2245

    rbb2245 New Member

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    Yes, I have the originals speakers.
     
  5. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    There's the likely problem.
    Also the Tung Sol in V1 is a bright one.
     
  6. PU239

    PU239 Well-Known Member

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  7. mellotron72

    mellotron72 New Member

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    I have 4 Tung Sol in the pre-amp and 2 Gold Lion KT66s in the power section. I don't find it too bright with these and haven't suffered tube rattle with the Gold Lions. This combination seems to work well in LDR and HDR and is good with Les Pauls and Strats. I use the mid boost at low practice volumes to round out the tones and with the Strat if it sounds a bit thin. I crank the mids, bass at 4 to 6 and treble 7 to 8. I have started to put the presence at 8 as it enhances break up in LDR.
     
  8. 67mike

    67mike Well-Known Member

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    Tung sol 12ax7 is ice pick bright!!!!!!!!!


    Throw jj in v1 to darken it up


    Additionally, like someone else mentioned the tung sol kt66 suck arse!!!!
     
  9. JohnH

    JohnH Well-Known Member

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    Yes well, so I don't understand that wish. I run my body and detail at 5 and 8. A bit of push from an OD pedal is added too.

    What volume setting? >4 is advised above but if you need 3 or less, a simple attenuator helps a lot and takes a bit of the edge off.
     
  10. Mystic38

    Mystic38 Well-Known Member

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    So, I just pulled the 2266c out from the closet...its been awhile since i used this amp.

    There is no issue with detail at 10..the concern is the ratio between body and detail.. they need to be in balance and its best to start with these two controls with everything else at 5...the balance of these two controls is the most dramatic affect to the amp tone.
    Detail is mid to top end gain and body is low and low mid gain, so with body low and detail high it will be bright sounding no matter what tubes you have or how else you have dialed it in, as you have dialed in a mid to top end gain only... fwiw i set mine up to your knob settings and its not a preferred tone for me for sure..lol
    with a strat, you may well need some clean boost even with detail at 10 as the outputs vary significantly between types of SC and HB pup options on a strat.. for me a boost serves the job better. as the sound seems fuller with a boost and lower body/detail than equivalent gain levels without boost...if you follow..lol

    Also this is not a bedroom amp... master needs to be cranking at 5 or it just sounds fizzy.


     
  11. Mystic38

    Mystic38 Well-Known Member

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    :thumb:tis identical to my settings... a push from an od or clean boost certainly does wonders
     
  12. shooto

    shooto Well-Known Member

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    RFT in V1...always and forever in a Marshall, imo...

    I have found a 12ax7 in V2 can be be bright as well, I have a 5751 in mine and it kinda helps with the volume jump as well...Chinese KT66s...
     
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  13. rbb2245

    rbb2245 New Member

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    Yeah, I have a feeling the Tung Sol KT66's might be the issue. I did order a pair of JJ KT66's to try out. I will play around with different preamp tubes as well as amp settings.
     
  14. rbb2245

    rbb2245 New Member

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    So the JJ KT66 tubes really helped this amp sound better. Now I get the "vocal quality" that Robin Trower talks about. I played around with preamp tubes and settled (for now) on JJ ECC83 in V1 & V2 (only have 2 at the moment). They really tamed this amp gain wise. I have a Svetlana in V3 and a GE JAN 5751 in V4. Now I am getting a usable tone, but the brightness is still there with the Body 5, Detail on 7, Treble & Presence on 0. I tried it through a different cab, so it's not the speakers. I will keep playing around with the preamp tubes, which brings up another question. One thing I've heard is to use a 5751 or a 12AT7 in V2 to lower the volume jump between LDR & HDR. I tried this with my JAN 5751 and it didn't seem any different. Is anyone using this setup? If so what tube & make are you using?
     
  15. shooto

    shooto Well-Known Member

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    I use a 5751 in v2... totally notice the difference...not as loud and fizzy...RFT in v1...

    I really don’t like JJ preamp tunes at all....I have stock KT66s though...hmmm, maybe some new ones might make it better
     
  16. Derald

    Derald Member

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    I have a VM 50W and I don't find it over bright. I run the Detail at 10 and Body at 5, TMB at 7, Presence at 10 and Master at 10. I run the amp though a load box and into my DAW with IR cabinets. It sounds amazing! But there are some speaker sim combinations that make the amp sound terrible and bright or scratchy. Glad it seems you have it sorted out.
     
  17. rbb2245

    rbb2245 New Member

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    Tube update. I installed all new preamp tubes. All JJ 12AX7-MG (mid gain) except for V2, I installed a JJ ECC82 (12AU7). Don't use these if you want high gain. The MG's are a little less gain than the normal JJ's and the ECC82 is a lot less gain. Since I mainly play Blues/Blues Rock, I thought I would give them a try. Putting the EEC82 in V2 makes a huge difference in volume jump when going from LDR to HDR. It's now a useable two channel amp, from clean to crunch. Add a Tube Screamer or OCD and the HDR channel just sings. Really great for riding the guitar volume. I don't normally like JJ preamp tubes, but they are cheap and rugged. So it was a good, fairly cheap experiment.
     
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  18. shooto

    shooto Well-Known Member

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    I like a 5751 in v2 for the same reason
     
  19. Kelia

    Kelia Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree !!
    Those turned my love-hate VM relation into a love relation !
    Bias sweet spot is also the key !
     
  20. 67mike

    67mike Well-Known Member

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    Tung Sol are ice pick brite in v1.....I cannot stand those pos. Try a Mullard R I or Svetlana in v1.

    Also do the tung sol kt66 have the metal bases? I recall that folks say not to use the 'kt66' with the metal bases as they really are not a true kt66......memory fails me if it was tung sol or jj that had these metal bases?
     

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