Two Bad Dsl20 Heads???

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by ALLsteven, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Sneeks

    Sneeks New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    4
    My DSL20HR has some hiss even when nothing is connected to it, more so as expected on the Ultra channel but nothing that concerns me at all.
     
  2. Fernando Castro

    Fernando Castro New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    6
    Hi, I'm new on this forum. I've read a good deal of similar threads to this before I decided to share my experience. I have the exact same issue with a DSL20CR as described by the OP. I ordered one at Thomann (Germany) about 10 days ago and it had the problem. Customer service asked me to record the sound so a tech could hear it. I recorded it with the cell phone and sent it to them. Without any further communication, they simply sent me a prepaid return label so that I could send the amp back to them free of charge. They received the product and sent me a new one (different serial number, May 2018) on the same day. I received it yesterday and... it has the same problem. I was hopeful it wouldn't, because I tested the amp for about 1 hour before it started to act up. I will call them today to discuss a solution.

    When I ordered the first DSL20CR, I also ordered a DSL5CR (from a different store). I still have it (I have the right to evaluate it for 30 days). The 5-watt amp has absolutely ZERO noise issues. It doesn't even hiss.

    Many users suggest swapping tubes before "trashing the amp". A valid point, but at any rate one would expect a working product when it's new out of the box. In my case, it has been two new, out-of-the-box units that have the same problem. At any rate, I will discuss the swapping tubes option with Thomann. I believe they will suggest that I simply return the amp -- again.

    I also wrote a message to MarshallAmps.de (from a form on their website) concerning another information that I found both in this forum and on a YouTube comment. Someone (not sure it is the same person) reports having contacted Marshall in Canada, and Marshall allegedly admitted a problem with the DSL20CR, saying that two 1-Meg resistors, namely R56 and R70, are faulty. Replacing these should solve the issue. I asked Marshall about this on the message, and I am wondering what they will answer. Even if this really is a solution, I am not sure if I should perform such an intervention on a new product.

    For the sake of helping others with the same problem (there seem to be many), I will update the progress of my case here in this thread.
     
  3. Fernando Castro

    Fernando Castro New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    6
    Update. After I wrote my last post, I contacted Thomann to try and discuss a solution. I brought up the possibility of faulty parts on the board, but they said that they would know if there had been a bad batch from production (and they would have done a recall). I also brought up the possibility to swap tubes, but they refused this suggestion. Instead, they asked me to return the unit (for the second time) and they would perform a test before sending me a replacement.

    Today I received my third DSL20CR from Thomann. The box had a sticker informing that the package had been opened for a quality test. On the inside there was another sticker with "QC pass" and "Sound pass". The sticker on the outside is clearly from Thomann; the one on the inside I don't know, could be Marshall's, but I don't remember seeing it on the other two packages that I had received before.

    At this point I really need to show appreciation for Thomann's customer service.

    I turned the amp on (in Standby) and instinctively touched the top on the right side. This is because on the other two units I had before I could clearly feel some mechanical vibration, probably the power transformer, probably 50 Hz. This time I could feel no vibration. In an absolutely quiet room, I could hear the faintest of hums coming from the unit when in Standby.

    I plugged the guitar and switched to 10-watt mode and was already expecting to hear that rustling, crackling sound that my first two units made... but not this time! I do hear some faint hiss from the speaker, also when all knobs are on zero, but I consider this normal (even though the DSL5CR produces absolutely no sound... but then again the 5-watt amp does not have two EL34 on the power section). All good on 20-watt mode as well.

    My first two units did not produce the crackling sound immediately. It took them an hour or so to start acting up. So I played and experimented for over an hour, all good. I played another hour, still all good. All in all I must have played over three hours, and everything still sounds good.

    I hope I am not jinxing it by stating it here, but it seems the third time really was a charm and I finally received a non-defective DSL20CR. I wonder what it is that Thomann did after all. Did they just take a random unit and it happened to be OK? Did they have to test multiple units until they found one without the noise that I complained about? Did they maybe just play the amp DIMED to push the snot out? I guess I'll never know.

    I will still continue to evaluate the amp for the next few days, and I must admit that I am still apprehensive that it could still turn out to be defective after all. It is a pity that Marshall let this happen.
     
    Mitchell Pearrow and Antmax like this.
  4. Antmax

    Antmax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    903
    Location:
    Brit in California
    Nice that they take care of their customers. Mine has been fine the last couple of months I've owned it and I have put over 100 hours on it so far. My friend who has had the combo for 6 months had no problems either. There have been a small number of people complaining on various forums though.

    Mine is actually quieter than my old DSL5c which surprised me. The hiss in 20w ultra gain mode is similar to the DSL5c in 5w mode.
     
  5. guitarman3001

    guitarman3001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    132
    For those of you who have gone through several DSL20s before getting one that actually works, don't feel bad. As I type this my fourth one is on the way to me.

    I got the first three at a local shop. The first one had two problems. The FX loop had an issue where if I was on the Ultra channel, even if the volume was low and the power section had plenty of room left, a clean boost in the loop would only add compression and distortion, not volume. It would add volume on the clean channel but not on the Ultra channel. It was almost as if the loop was placed before the preamp in the circuit instead of between the preamp and the power section.

    The second problem is that the channel volume controls had no effect through the emulated out. Basically, it was acting as if the channel volumes were set at 100% and the only way to control the volume was by turning the gain knobs up or down. If you can imagine, trying to get any kind of dirt from the Ultra channel required wearing earplugs with the headphones. With the volume set at max, by the time you got the gain high enough to get a good dirt tone, the volume coming through the headphones was loud enough to cause hearing damage.

    I contacted Marshall and they confirmed that both of those were known issues and were both resolved by the same fix which was some kind of "factory update" that required no parts. My guess is a miswired circuit or two somewhere.

    They told me to take it into a service center for a warranty repair. They assured me it would be a quick in and out repair since no parts were needed. Mind you, this amp was a day or two old. Anyway, I called the only authorized service center in my city and they told me the wait was six weeks. Marshall didn't offer to send me a shipping label to send it to them so I went back to the store which had offered to exchange it for another one they had in stock. So back I went. I took some headphones with me. Before taking the second one home, I pulled it out of the box and tried the emulated out. Surprise, that one had the exact same problem. I got a refund and went home empty handed.

    Emailed Marshall and told them what had happened. The rep offered to send two new, fixed, perfectly working amps to the store, one of which would be mine.

    When the new amp got there from Marshall, with a guarantee that it would work perfectly, I drove back (about 1 hour roundtrip), took it out of the box, tried the headphones, and YES! Success! I happily drove it home, plugged it in, and fired it up.

    Started jamming on it in 10 watt mode and it was sounding good. The amp, not my playing.... I was thrilled to finally get one that worked right.

    After about 20 or 30 minutes in 10 watt mode I decided to switch it to 20 watt mode. I switched it to 20 watt mode, tentatively hit a chord, and was blasted across the room like the scene from Back To The Future. I thought WTF! I hope my neighbors don't call the cops! Mind you, the volume controls were set at about 1. Not 1:00, just 1. So I turned it down to pretty much zero, plucked a note, and again, deafeningly loud. I discovered that on this particular amp, when set to 20 watt mode, after the amp warmed up for about 20 minutes, the volume controls didn't work and were fixed at 100%, just like it had been through the emulated out on the previous two amps! I also discovered that about 10 minutes after it warmed up to the point that the volume controls didn't work on 20 watt mode, they also stopped working in 10 watt mode and I basically had an amp that after it warmed up, the volume controls would be set to max and I'd have no way to get a dirt tone at any kind of listenable volume.

    Check it out -----



    I contacted Marshall to tell them I'd had it. I made a video of the problem and promptly drove it back to the store for a refund and once again left empty handed.

    After a couple of days, I settled down and decided I was a glutton for punishment so I ordered a fourth one from Sweetwater, like I should have done to begin with. I let them know about the problems I'd had and asked if they could at least test out the emulated out/headphone jack to make sure the volume controls worked right before sending it to me.

    It should be here middle of next week. Keeping my fingers crossed that fourth time's a charm!!!
     
    Fernando Castro likes this.
  6. Antmax

    Antmax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    903
    Location:
    Brit in California
    I got mine from Sweetwater after reading about a couple of people with problems. I buy a lot of thing on Amazon with prime but some things like Tube amps I don't quite trust them to be conscious of the handling. Plus thay have that free store warranty alongside the factory one.

    I don't think I'd have lasted beyond the 2nd one. Probably would have gone for something else. Though there isn't that much this affordable new that really takes my fancy.

    Here's mine :)

     
  7. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    17,859
    Likes Received:
    12,115
    Location:
    Bio-Isolation Lock Down
    Yes I understand.
    But you will need a schematic hopefully to do anything about it.
    There is lower noise parts, which are more expensive.

    When you say noisy: are you talking about the noise with nothing plugged in?

    Or, are you talking about noise with guitar plugged in?
    Guitar on zero volume, is the noise still there?
    Guitar volume up: is the noise louder with the guitar volume turned up?
     
  8. guitarman3001

    guitarman3001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    132
    The only reason I took a chance on a fourth is because like you said, there's not much out there that really grabs my attention like the DSL20 has I thought about the Orange Rocker 15 but it doesn't have reverb or a footswitchable FX loop, both of which are very useful to me.

    The only other one out there that was a possibility was the Fender SS22 but it's almost twice the cost and a little heavier than I want for this use.
     
  9. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    26,779
    Likes Received:
    13,962
    Location:
    united States of America
    Does this issue have anything to do with quality control and/or the country of manufacture?
     
  10. guitarman3001

    guitarman3001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    132
    With so many reports of problems with the new DSLs, I'd say poor quality control and manufacturing tolerances not being properly implemented (or just overly lax tolerances), along with the cheapest possible and most poorly spec'd components are the likely cause. Poor engineering and design are also partly to blame. Designing an amp in which the volume controls don't work through the headphone out is poor design. Then putting them out to market without testing them is poor quality control. It's a perfect mix of incompetence and laziness. I don't know what their QC protocols are but it looks to me like they don't test all of the features on their amps. They should take X number of amps at random out of each production run and test every single feature on it. They obviously don't do that and we as consumers have to suffer.

    IMO, country of manufacture has nothing to do with it. All of our smartphones and probably whatever device you're using to post here are made in other countries. For the most part they work fine.
     
  11. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    26,779
    Likes Received:
    13,962
    Location:
    united States of America
    Yet people have smart phones catching fire and blowing up. :)

    Also companies with more money pay for better services and manufacture. I would also guess a smart phone is far cheaper to manufacture than a tube amplifier.

    Your $600 dollar smart phone probably cost $6 to manufacture in mass production.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  12. Antmax

    Antmax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    903
    Location:
    Brit in California
    The old DSL5c had some QC issues despite having tested stickers and being signed inside. Mine and at least a couple of others had the FX loop wires routed too close to power lines. Mine wasn't as bad as someone elses where their FX loop cable was actually zip tied to the power wires. Someone else, think it was Mickey had a loose wire in his FX loop connector.

    For those with problems, it's probably some guy in the plant who wasn't doing their procedure quite right. Shame, but not unusual when things are rushed to market. My Marshall code I got on launch day had so many bugs in the firmware and app, it wasn't funny and was barely usable the first 6 months.
     
  13. Fernando Castro

    Fernando Castro New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    6
    I have read a lot of stuff on forums before I even decided to share my experience at all, but probably guitarman3001 has had the worst luck of all with these amps! Thank you for reporting all of the encountered problems, at least it gives everyone a chance to test these very issues right off the bat, when it is still possible to return/replace the unit, rather than finding out too late about them.
     
  14. Graham G

    Graham G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    331
    Different manufacturers have obviously different approaches to product development, some take the test it to death & do everything possible to launch a new product as perfect as possible,hence adding cost to the purchase price, others take the "time to market" approach & offer a lower price product,which is then test drove by retail customers,so bugs/faults get ironed out in public, you pay your money & take your choice.
     
  15. Kutt

    Kutt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Yikes. I had the 20HR for about 5 minutes right after it was released and returned it due to some oddities with the FX loop and footswitching. After reading this thread I'm convinced the product line is made from Lincoln Logs, Play Doh, Legos, and a power supply.

    Yay corporate profits!
     
  16. slide222

    slide222 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    cambridgeshire uk
    is the origin this bad as well , I was going for origin but then a very clean 2525c appeared for sale locally, and I brought that instead , that was a good decision
     
  17. ITburst

    ITburst Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    Mississauga Canada
    I realize this is an old thread but I thought I would post anyway.
    It’s Sept. 2021. I received my brand new DSL20HR with a manufactured date of May 2021. It has the EXACT SAME ISSUE!

    Marshall suggests it’s possibly the gyrator.

    So this means only one thing. Marshall are deliberately installing faulty components in their amps. I say again, deliberately!

    If this has been going on since 2018, and when contacted in 2021 they suggest straight away that it’s the gyrator, well that tells me they KNOW they are installing and selling faulty product.

    Someone should start a class action lawsuit.

    This ones going back for service. Or a full refund!!
     
    Unburst likes this.
  18. Unburst

    Unburst Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2021
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    43
    Sorry to hear that. I returned two of them from different online shops,two years ago.The last one was from Thomann. Even sent them the audio recorded on my phone to which they replied thats normal for this kind of amp. Hissing with all pots on zero, the hum reacted to Presence and Reverb pots changing its freq. The other thing that was strange was that the master got too loud instantly, no fine taper. The hissing was not present with the use of an attenuator. So ,yeah that's irresponsible that they don't fix a well known issue. Later bought me a DSL40CR and never looked back. Dead quiet.
     
    Mitchell Pearrow likes this.
  19. ITburst

    ITburst Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    Mississauga Canada
    I can see me doing the same thing if this one does not get repaired to my satisfaction.
     
    Mitchell Pearrow likes this.
  20. Unburst

    Unburst Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2021
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    43
    I liked the format of the 20HR. Light in weight and small ,nice crunch on the ultra gain channel, the clean channel was crunching ACDC at max. vol., effects loop. This amp could have been a bestseller for Marshall, but now with all the posts many potential buyers have been put off.
     
    Mitchell Pearrow likes this.

Share This Page