Treble bleed mod - anyone like them?

PaulHikeS2

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I'm rewiring my Player Strat with Fender V-Mod pickups, new pots, switch, and jack. I also have a few caps and resistors coming with the intention of adding a treble bleed mod. Anyone use them, and what do you think? Do they really help maintain clarity when you roll the volume back? Any real disadvantages?
 

FleshOnGear

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I use treble bleed caps in my guitars. I like to use a 220k in series with the capacitor, though, to soften the effect a bit. IMO the treble bleed can be a bit extreme without it. YMMV, most people don’t put a resistor in series with the cap.
 

SteelLucky

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I don’t like most treble-bleed mods. With Passive pickups I actually like the standard roll off and normally cut the treble bleeds out. I will say PRS probably has the best stock treble bleed circuits.
 

PaulHikeS2

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I use treble bleed caps in my guitars. I like to use a 220k in series with the capacitor, though, to soften the effect a bit. IMO the treble bleed can be a bit extreme without it. YMMV, most people don’t put a resistor in series with the cap.
Thanks - so in series, a higher resistor value softens the effect. I definitely don't want there to be a perceived treble boost, just want to keep some of the sparkle when I roll back the volume to clean up the signal.

My plan is to try the classic parallel type, but I have enough extras to try wiring in series as well - I have 150K as the highest value resistor, so I'll try that in a series configuration.
 

JohnH

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I like them and have them on all my guitars. But you have to use the right type and values. A few years ago I went right into it with maths and testing. i concluded that the best simple arrangement is the resistor and cap in parallel. Its much nearer to keeping the tonal balance than the cap and resistor in series.

With 500k pots, use a 150k resistor, with 250k pots, a 120k resistor.

The cap value should be between 680pF and 1000pF. Use 1000pF if your most important reduced volume is in the range about 6 to 9 on the volume pot. Use a smaller cap if you usually turn down to below 5.

TB circuits make no difference to full volume tone.

These ones slightly reduce the taper of audio log pots, so they don't turn down as quickly. Its about halfway to being like a linear pot, and I think its good change.

All of that can be considered as a starting point and there's plenty of scope for changing the values by a step or two. Also, its only needed at all if you find you want to compensate for duller tones at lower volume.
 

PaulHikeS2

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I like them and have them on all my guitars. But you have to use the right type and values. A few years ago I went right into it with maths and testing. i concluded that the best simple arrangement is the resistor and cap in parallel. Its much nearer to keeping the tonal balance than the cap and resistor in series.

With 500k pots, use a 150k resistor, with 250k pots, a 120k resistor.

The cap value should be between 680pF and 1000pF. Use 1000pF if your most important reduced volume is in the range about 6 to 9 on the volume pot. Use a smaller cap if you usually turn down to below 5.

TB circuits make no difference to full volume tone.

These ones slightly reduce the taper of audio log pots, so they don't turn down as quickly. Its about halfway to being like a linear pot, and I think its good change.

All of that can be considered as a starting point and there's plenty of scope for changing the values by a step or two. Also, its only needed at all if you find you want to compensate for duller tones at lower volume.
Thank you. This reinforces much of the research I've done. My first attempt will be with a 1000pF cap and a 150K resistor on 250K pots as those are the values I settled on in my research. I only want to roll back the volume a little to clean up a not so clean amp without losing brightness, so it sounds like I've settled on the correct cap value. I don't really know what changing the resistor value will cause when wiring them in parallel. Will a higher value resistor soften the effect, as I've been told it does in series?
 

JohnH

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Thank you. This reinforces much of the research I've done. My first attempt will be with a 1000pF cap and a 150K resistor on 250K pots as those are the values I settled on in my research. I only want to roll back the volume a little to clean up a not so clean amp without losing brightness, so it sounds like I've settled on the correct cap value. I don't really know what changing the resistor value will cause when wiring them in parallel. Will a higher value resistor soften the effect, as I've been told it does in series?

If you dont have a parallel resistor, then you keep adding relatively more treble as you turn down and the tone gets thinner and thinner. the resistor keeps this in proportion by letting through the mids and lower notes. So Id suggest to keep with those R values with those caps, but if you just want less overall treble bleed effect, use a larger resistor and smaller cap in proportion.

Before I did my bit of number crunching (about 10 years ago), I was using the most common treble bleed advice I found online, which was 220k and 1000pF, and finding it got too thin turning down. So I was looking for something better, even if more complicated. But it turned out that the simple arrangement is fine, just needed a lower resistor.
 

PaulHikeS2

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If you dont have a parallel resistor, then you keep adding relatively more treble as you turn down and the tone gets thinner and thinner. the resistor keeps this in proportion by letting through the mids and lower notes. So Id suggest to keep with those R values with those caps, but if you just want less overall treble bleed effect, use a larger resistor and smaller cap in proportion.

Before I did my bit of number crunching (about 10 years ago), I was using the most common treble bleed advice I found online, which was 220k and 1000pF, and finding it got too thin turning down. So I was looking for something better, even if more complicated. But it turned out that the simple arrangement is fine, just needed a lower resistor.
Just installed a standard treble bleed with a 150k resistor and a 1000pF cap. I also installed new pickups, pots, and switch, so there are major improvements across the board. It's now a Player Strat with Fender V-Mod pups. Even with the improvements, I can clearly hear how the tone retains it's brightness at lower volumes, and I didn't notice much of a change in the taper which is contrary to my research. I'm getting really good and different sounds all across the volume range - all in all a successful night. Going to use what I learned on the next guitar soon. Thanks for the help.
 

WellBurnTheSky

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I have a treble bleed circuit on my HSS Strat (with a Duncan JB and Suhr V60LPs). It uses a 500k volume pot (with a 500k resistor to ground on the switch, so that the humbucker sees 500k and the SCs see 250k). The master tone pot (I don't like having the volume pot too close to the bridge with a Floyd Rose) is a 250k pot iirc.
After tinkering a bit with values, I went back to the "Suhr values" of 150k resistor and 680pF cap in parallel, I felt like it was the ones that gave me the best, most even taper on the volume knob.
 


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