Time

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Vinsanitizer, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Vinsanitizer

    Vinsanitizer Forum Support Spec. Double Platinum Supporting Member VIP Member

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    There's really no such thing as "time" right? Clocks don't actually measure time, they measure change, correct? There are predictable things that happen at determined intervals such as sunrise and sunset cycles, tides, etc., and clocks are useful measuring devices to indicate to us when these cycles will occur? I would think calendars also apply as measurements of time, but more relative to seasons than events. Otherwise, there's not really such a thing as time, there's only perpetual existence I'm thinkin'.
     
  2. mirrorman

    mirrorman Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, time exists but in its own dimension.
    I think I'll have a few shots of Jack tonight and see if I can find it for you.
    I'll report back tomorrow - if I have time.
     
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  3. stringtree

    stringtree Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you.

    From earliest memories to about sixth grade I had no feeling of time. Just calendar days that went by in a state of foreverness.
    The ending of sixth grade, that summer was my first experience of summer being just 3 months.

    The job I had in life was stocking shelves. I remember experiencing the holidays this way also. Thanksgiving was in this state of foreverness. Its hard to describe time, without using time to describe itself.

    1985 was the last of the holidays that I felt this foreverness. The days seemed deeper, fuller, some how longer. A month was like forever. The best way I can describe time is, its like standing outside in the wide open, then go into your garage with the door down, then go and be in a bedroom with the door closed, then the bathroom.

    As the rooms get smaller, you feel that change. To me, that is what time is. Yet nothing can hold time, its like trying to catch the wind.

    Maybe age has something to do with how we process the passing of time. Time is like feeling, like a gallon of water when its full, heavy/youth. As water is poured out of the gallon jug, the feeling of its weight has changed, do to less in it. The jug also becomes a bit more vulnerable in a different way.

    What ever is going on, I am sensing the change................
     
  4. South Park

    South Park Well-Known Member

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    This farmer was holding this little pig up to a apple tree to get a apple from it . So this farmer that lived next door asked does that take a lot time to get that apple. The ether farmer explained what is time to a pig
     
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  5. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Time exists,as you say, perpetually however it is a temporary manifestation.
    BP
     
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  6. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    Of course the questioner was referring to the farmer's time not the pigs.!:facepalm:
    BP
     
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  7. BanditPanda

    BanditPanda Well-Known Member

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    i.e. .... " the end is near".....:ugh:
    BP
     
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  8. Nik Henville

    Nik Henville Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    I am not entirely convinced that a clock measures anything, truth be told. They "keep" time and "indicate" time, sure... but "measure" it? I don't know. A clock measures the rate at which some arbitrary physical process (springs unwinding, flywheels spinning, water flowing, candles burning, caesium vibrating...) takes place in "time", rather than measuring "time" directly and independently. In this respect a clock is NOT measuring like a water-meter through which quantities of water flow and spin a wheel which turns a dial which displays pints used or litres consumed. No quantities of time displace no paddles or wheels or whatever...

    And it's more than mere semantics, too.
     
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  9. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    some peep's I know did this song years ago...

     
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  10. Nik Henville

    Nik Henville Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Time provides us with a measure of change, enabling us to put moments in to some temporal perspective (my birthday is before yours, or your guitar string is vibrating more times in a second than mine...). It enables us to talk meaningfully about the durations of events (this track is three minutes long, the album is nearly forty minutes...), and to do these things, some method of time indication is needed.

    A central tenet of relativity is that there is no common, universal time standard. Absolute time is not one of the things that people can agree on in the world that we live in. At low relative velocity we can come very very close to such agreement, good enough for almost all practical purposes...

    An ideal clock, relativisticaly, is a spacetime odometer - measuring a distance-like quantity called a "spacetime interval" along its path. If spacetime is "flat", i.e., there is negligible gravity, and you have a bunch of clocks moving in parallel (thus at the same velocity) they will all maintain whatever synchronization you impose on them. Physicists call that collective behaviour "time", and speak as if clocks measure it, but it's a bit misleading because it's not anything fundamental, it's just a relationship between a bunch of clocks that happen to have a common velocity. And if you let a lone clock move across the formation with a different velocity it rapidly gets out of sync, making it obvious that the other clocks weren't measuring that "time" so much as merely being coincidentally in sync with it.

    (for some of that... big shout out to:-
    Mark Barton, PhD in Physics, a physicist at the University of Glasgow)


    I can do no better than quote Tim Dawes of Seattle - a widely published author on this stuff...

    When you think about it, time is fundamentally a derivative of motion. Imagine a universe with one thing in it. Would there be time? No, there would be a thing surrounded by space You'd have no sense of where it was, or whether it moved, or whether time passed. Because there would be nothing to compare one moment to the next.

    We recognize time because something changes. Time is grounded in the second law of thermodynamics. Time appears to move forward because physical elements in the universe fall into increasingly complex arrangements. (A glass falls and shatters on the floor, spilling milk in all directions.) There's a non zero probability that the shattered glass fragments could find their way back together and the milk could seep back into the glass. But events that have to occur to make that happen are each extremely remote. And multiplied by one another, you get a likelihood that is remote to point of being virtually impossible.

    So we perceive time because we perceive motion. A clock indicates that motion and we assign it some standard of measurement that we call time.
     
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  11. stringtree

    stringtree Well-Known Member

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    :dude:

    Really great post.

    Time is independent. We've just associated it with clocks and such.....
     
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  12. stringtree

    stringtree Well-Known Member

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    Maybe its not the world we live in that has time...

    But the things in this world themselves, are what possess time.
    You, me, trees, etc...

    Were just placed in a back drop of only now.....
     
  13. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Time is the pressure which the mass of the earth exerts on the fabric of space. This pressure causes a distortion (like a dent in the side of a car) in the fabric, which we call time.
    If we were standing on another planet watching the earth, time would pass in an entirely different fashion compared to standing on the earth.
    Like for example: If we were standing on Jupiter, we perceive 3 hours may pass where we are standing. But on earth 30 years may have passed already.
    (because Jupiter makes a bigger dent in the fabric compared to earth)
    Therefore time is not a constant which is the same everywhere, it is perceived as relative to the position of the observer !

    "There's really no such thing as "time" right?"

    Time is only real where you are observing from.
    The rest of the universe sees (or perceives) a different passage of time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  14. Nik Henville

    Nik Henville Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    We remember the past but we don't remember the future.
    Entropy increases with time, things become more disorderly.
    Causes precedes effect, we are born young and grow older.
    But here's the thing...
    ...that "arrow of time" phenomenon is NOT found in the underlying laws of physics. It's a feature of the universe we see, but not a feature of the laws of the individual particles that make up this universe. So the arrow of time comes in to play over and above (around? inside? under?) whatever local laws of physics apply.
    St.Augustine said (354AD-430AD)
    "What then is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks, I do not know."
    I am with St.Augustine...
     
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  15. stringtree

    stringtree Well-Known Member

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    Another great share.
    "Therefore time is not a constant which is the same everywhere, it is perceived as relative to the position of the observer !"
     
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  16. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    I think that Einstein was telling us basically the same thing.
    And if you break it down frame by frame, and consider each segment you may realize that he was correct.

    "Observer M stands on an embankment, while observer M' rides on a rapidly traveling train. At the precise moment that M and M' coincide in their positions, lightning strikes points A and B equidistant from M and M'.
    Light from these two flashes reach M at the same time, from which M concludes that the bolts were synchronous. The combination of Einstein's first and second postulates implies that, despite the rapid motion of the train relative to the embankment, M' measures exactly the same speed of light as does M. Since M' was equidistant from A and B when lightning struck, the fact that M' receives light from B before light from A means that to M', the bolts were not synchronous. Instead, the bolt at B struck first."
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  17. Nik Henville

    Nik Henville Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Which is the accurate "measurer" of time:-

    [​IMG]

    Or...

    [​IMG]

    Answer... neither - they are both equally vague at giving us waypoints that enable us to observe time passing, but neither measures it more or less accurately - or even measures it at all.
     
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  18. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Time keeping was synchronized, standardized, and vastly improved because of train wrecks.
    Up until the time trains collided it really didn't matter too much.
     
  19. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    :slash:....go play some geetar Vin!!! :lol:
     
  20. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Just remember, even a broken stopped clock is right twice a day :slash:
     
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