Thinking about a Studio series...

Fisheth24

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Hey guys, I'm a new member around these parts and it's looking like you're a friendly bunch of approachable people, so I thought I'd start a thread.

I'm currently a user of both versions of the JCM 2000 100 heads and I love them, especially through my 1960A cab, it just roars, but it's looking more likely that I'll have to start using public transport to get to and from rehearsals, so I'm thinking about downsizing to one of the Studio series, most likely being either a 2525 or an SC20. As opposed to one of those new-fangled modelling units that the younguns like these days.

I do have a couple of questions though

I'm in a Metal (Influences are Maiden, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond amongst others) band and my other guitarists DSL20 isn't cutting through without a mic being placed on it, does the studio line have this issue? (Also should note, our drummer is King Kong and hits hard) the clips sound great, but it doesn't tell me about how it is in the room

Does a carry bag exist for these as they do for other brands of amps with similar sizing? If not can one be custom made?

Thanks guys!
 
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Jethro Rocker

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Now, his DSL isn't cutting thru? Part of it could be speaker cab and placement? Settings? Maybe he needs more presence?
Maybe you are just really loud? I always think initially to set speaker cabs where evryone can hear it well, not pointed at legs etc first before just turning everything up. I like to face the drummer and bass player for rehearsals, easier for cues amd everyone can hear better.
You would have to OD the heck out of an SC20 to get metal sounds but it should definitely cut through! The Jubilee has less bite naturally but I guess you can get more by setring presence up. Whether it is loud enough, who knows? Realistically the SC20 is a very loud amp, only slightly quieter than a 2204 or other 50 watt versions. So if it can't be heard something is too loud. Even a loud drummer should be buried with something like that. Again, with proper speaker placement
 

Fisheth24

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Now, his DSL isn't cutting thru? Part of it could be speaker cab and placement? Settings? Maybe he needs more presence?
Maybe you are just really loud? I always think initially to set speaker cabs where evryone can hear it well, not pointed at legs etc first before just turning everything up. I like to face the drummer and bass player for rehearsals, easier for cues amd everyone can hear better.
You would have to OD the heck out of an SC20 to get metal sounds but it should definitely cut through! The Jubilee has less bite naturally but I guess you can get more by setring presence up. Whether it is loud enough, who knows? Realistically the SC20 is a very loud amp, only slightly quieter than a 2204 or other 50 watt versions. So if it can't be heard something is too loud. Even a loud drummer should be buried with something like that. Again, with proper speaker placement

Good points, I wonder if it was because the guitar cabs were pointed at each other, but even with the gain and the volume at 3oclock on the master it was just about loud enough, but wasn't quite there, hence my concerns with loudness of it, admittedly, I hadn't considered speaker efficiency though (They use MG cabs)

We're in this Friday without a bassist, so it'll give us time to try the presence boost, but yeah, it's weird considering everyone's experiences on the forum has been the opposite of that, it's out of warranty now, but my local tech is only a couple of mins away from our practice space, so we're taking it to him for a once over, just to make sure nothing is wrong with it

Good points on the SC20 too, ideally I don't want to use a boost for rehearsals, but I mean it's not going to add much more weight if I take my SD-1 along so it's not much of an issue really
 

Jethro Rocker

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Good points, I wonder if it was because the guitar cabs were pointed at each other, but even with the gain and the volume at 3oclock on the master it was just about loud enough, but wasn't quite there, hence my concerns with loudness of it, admittedly, I hadn't considered speaker efficiency though (They use MG cabs)

We're in this Friday without a bassist, so it'll give us time to try the presence boost, but yeah, it's weird considering everyone's experiences on the forum has been the opposite of that, it's out of warranty now, but my local tech is only a couple of mins away from our practice space, so we're taking it to him for a once over, just to make sure nothing is wrong with it

Good points on the SC20 too, ideally I don't want to use a boost for rehearsals, but I mean it's not going to add much more weight if I take my SD-1 along so it's not much of an issue really
Could be EQ as help. Scooped mids make an amp way harder to hear. DSL doesn't cut theough like an 800.
Do you have good monitors etc? Cabs pointed at each other on either side? Would think you could hear that ok if cabs aren't real close to you.
Is your DSL plenty loud enough?
 

Biff Maloy

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Good points, I wonder if it was because the guitar cabs were pointed at each other, but even with the gain and the volume at 3oclock on the master it was just about loud enough, but wasn't quite there, hence my concerns with loudness of it, admittedly, I hadn't considered speaker efficiency though (They use MG cabs)

We're in this Friday without a bassist, so it'll give us time to try the presence boost, but yeah, it's weird considering everyone's experiences on the forum has been the opposite of that, it's out of warranty now, but my local tech is only a couple of mins away from our practice space, so we're taking it to him for a once over, just to make sure nothing is wrong with it

Good points on the SC20 too, ideally I don't want to use a boost for rehearsals, but I mean it's not going to add much more weight if I take my SD-1 along so it's not much of an issue really

Your concerns are warranted. I use an SV20H and 2061CX un-miked with a 5 piece. The cabinet has G12H Anniversary Celestions rated at 100db. I stick with them just for the little extra volume they put out.

Miked up i think you'd be good. Un-miked and with a heavy drummer....that DSL20 is trying to tell you something.
 

Fisheth24

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Your concerns are warranted. I use an SV20H and 2061CX un-miked with a 5 piece. The cabinet has G12H Anniversary Celestions rated at 100db. I stick with them just for the little extra volume they put out.

Miked up i think you'd be good. Un-miked and with a heavy drummer....that DSL20 is trying to tell you something.

I have just had a thought, I wonder if it's because I'm using high output actives (EMG 81/85, Jim Root Daemonum's)
and he's using 14K passives, I swapped from one of my actives to the passives and the volume drop was immense.
Like noticeable, I'm gonna take a passive guitar at the next rehearsal and see if that changes anything
 

marshallmellowed

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I have just had a thought, I wonder if it's because I'm using high output actives (EMG 81/85, Jim Root Daemonum's)
and he's using 14K passives, I swapped from one of my actives to the passives and the volume drop was immense.
Like noticeable, I'm gonna take a passive guitar at the next rehearsal and see if that changes anything
Don't forget, there are 2 volumes to consider, stage volume and "out front" (FOH) volume. I would suggest putting someone (or a recorder) out front to monitor how the band sounds. If everything can be balanced and heard out front, amp volume (or lack of) is not your problem. Based on your previous comments, like "cabs were pointed at each other", I'm assuming it's stage volume your having issues with. Guitar cabs are very directional, and unless you have about 10' between you and a straight cab at floor level (closer for an angled cab), most of the sound (your sound) is below where you'll hear it. Get those same cabs 3 or 4 feet off the floor, and they'll be blowing your heads off. This is why you see so many guys on smaller stages using combos on tilt-back stands. If cabs are going to be out of earshot, they really need to be mic'd and run through monitors.
 
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Biff Maloy

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I have just had a thought, I wonder if it's because I'm using high output actives (EMG 81/85, Jim Root Daemonum's)
and he's using 14K passives, I swapped from one of my actives to the passives and the volume drop was immense.
Like noticeable, I'm gonna take a passive guitar at the next rehearsal and see if that changes anything

Definitely experiment. Also, my experience and suggestions lines up with all the other suggestions of cab placement and speaker efficiency. It will all add up.

It's not an indictment of the Studios. I have the SV20H and 2525H. Love them and the SC20H is very high on my list. But, I'm in an un-miked situation and although the tone is nice i find myself wanting to supplement the volume just a little. Miked like I've been before I wouldn't have any worries. It's all boiled down to what your situation is like.

But, you need portability. I wouldn't suggest the combos with 10s. I've experimented with my heads into a 1x10 and got some good tones but you loose volume.

Edit: The 2525C comes with a greenback 25 but I think amongst the Studios and your interests the SC is the one to get.

"Up The Irons" btw
 

Thunderslug

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I’ve owned both the 2525h and the sc20 and gigged them both. We’re a classic rock covers band playing O’Neills type venues (since you’re in the UK maybe it’ll help as point of reference). I’ve not needed to mic either of them. We play loud and I had them running with the master volume about half way up but there’s not much actual volume lift after that point. That said, it’s all relative to how loud your drummer is. You could maybe get one and try it and if it doesn’t work out, return it.

I ended up selling the 2525h. Was a great amp but just not what I had in my head. After playing 800s for years, the sc20 and an sd-1 is perfect...sounds good doing Maiden too.

Do you need a clean channel? If so the 2525h might be the way to go...but the sc20 cleans up nicely just by rolling back the guitar volume.

Another option if you’re on public transport could be a Matrix VB800. I know it’s not a Marshall but it’s based on a jcm800 and is insanely loud and light. I have one and have gigged with it when I couldn’t be bothered to lug my old JCM800 up several flights of stairs...sounded great...not quite the same but close enough.
 

Kinkless Tetrode

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What is efficiency of the speakers? G12M Greenbacks and G12T75s (what is in the standard Marshall 4x12) are noticeable quieter than G12H's, or Vintage 30s. A 20 watt amp is like a 40 watt amp when run through V30s compared to GB's or 75s.
 

Fisheth24

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What is efficiency of the speakers? G12M Greenbacks and G12T75s (what is in the standard Marshall 4x12) are noticeable quieter than G12H's, or Vintage 30s. A 20 watt amp is like a 40 watt amp when run through V30s compared to GB's or 75s.

Good points, I think the studio has MG cabs, so I think they'll be Celestion Rockets?

Not clued up on those cabs though

Been leaning to 2525 though, seem darker than the SC20.

Just a couple of questions on it:

Not a deal-breaker, but can you turn off the Diode clipping, and can someone explain how it features in a circuit?

I was also reading that the bigger SJ can use other types of octagonal tubes, is that the same with the 2525? I.E will it take a pair of 6L6 tubes?
 
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scozz

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Good points, I think the studio has MG cabs, so I think they'll be Celestion Rockets?

Not clued up on those cabs though

Been leaning to 2525 though, seem darker than the SC20.

Just a couple of questions on it:

Not a deal-breaker, but can you turn off the Diode clipping, and can someone explain how it features in a circuit?

I was also reading that the bigger SJ can use other types of octagonal tubes, is that the same with the 2525? I.E will it take a pair of 6L6 tubes?
The Jubilee is definitely a darker sounding amp than the SC20 imo.

As a matter of reference, the SC20, being very reminiscent of its big brother 800, as being a ‘bright’ amp.
 

Kinkless Tetrode

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Good points, I think the studio has MG cabs, so I think they'll be Celestion Rockets?

Not clued up on those cabs though

Been leaning to 2525 though, seem darker than the SC20.

Just a couple of questions on it:

Not a deal-breaker, but can you turn off the Diode clipping, and can someone explain how it features in a circuit?

I was also reading that the bigger SJ can use other types of octagonal tubes, is that the same with the 2525? I.E will it take a pair of 6L6 tubes?

The pull rhythm clip on the clean channel switches in a diode clip, so it can be kept switched off by not pulling the knob.

The LED clip on the overdrive channel can not be switched out.

The 2525H (as well as the SC) is cathode biased so you can just plug in and play 6L6s if you want.
 

Jethro Rocker

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Good points, I think the studio has MG cabs, so I think they'll be Celestion Rockets?

Not clued up on those cabs though

Been leaning to 2525 though, seem darker than the SC20.

Just a couple of questions on it:

Not a deal-breaker, but can you turn off the Diode clipping, and can someone explain how it features in a circuit?

I was also reading that the bigger SJ can use other types of octagonal tubes, is that the same with the 2525? I.E will it take a pair of 6L6 tubes?
Don't worry about the LED clip. Sounds fantastic, I have an original 87 Jubilee and then 2525H. Sounds great, Jubilees tend to be a fairly unique sounding Marshalls with very responsive EQs. It takes the place of a second tube for clipping.
Whether it is LED clip, tube (very similar, realistically) SS, digital or gerbils on a treadmill it sounds awesome.
 

marshallmellowed

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I don’t know BP, I’ve never played thru an SV20. Someone who owns both should chime in on that question. @marshallmellowed is the only one I know for certain, has both.
Used as they should be, neither is "brighter" than the other (IMO). Of course, you can dial either to be "brighter" than anyone would ever want.
 


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