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Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Australian, Feb 24, 2019.
When you say 800 ,....if you take the diode equation out , how close are they circuit wise?
I’m not a tech. But the answer to that should arrive soon by one of the techs here.
Often the Jubilee circuit is said to be a JCM 800 (that is 2203/2204 and the like) plus diodes.
I consider this not to be true.
OK, the power stage including the phase inverter is the same like in the 2203/04.
Also the very first tube stage after the input is the same like in the 2203/04.
The rest is different, including most of the sound defining parts.
Then there is the channel switching, the post gain stages, but pre EQ FX loop, of course the diodes, and the heavily modified EQ circuit.
Just go to the drtube website and put both schematics side by side, and you'll see the differences, even if you are not capable to "decode" it.
However the Jubilee preamp is designed to sound like a Marshall. It can sound pretty close to the 2203/04 depending how you set the controls.
Both amps are truly great. That's for sure
Thanks for the crash course HC !
I bought a 2210 JCM800 full stack back when they were new. I remember seeing a Jubilee at the store but didn't know anything about the model so i never plugged in. This had to be 1987 which is about right. I gigged with that particular 800 for a long time, eventually moved on to 900's, etc. I never played a Jubilee until i got the 2525H when it came out. The Mini reminded me of that amp right out of the box only tweaked. Especially the rhythm channel. Tighter, more snappy? I'm not good at describing amps. They both are channel switchers. I don't get into the inner workings at all but could it have been a 2210 Marshall modified?
The Jubilee is much closer to the 2203/4 topology than to the 2210/05 series.
With the overdrive channel the signal path is much like the 2203/4 at V1 with V1A cascading into V1B. The main difference at this point is that the Jubilee has two additional gain/clipping stages before V2.
With the Jubilee's clean channel the signal path goes straight from V1A to v2 just like a plexi. The pull rhythm clip puts a mild diode clip on the clean channel signal between V1A and V2, which allows a light overdrive at lower volumes.
The more unique aspect of the Jubilee topology is the tone stack being driven from the plate of V2B instead from the cathode of V2B as would be the case of a 2203 or a plexi. Also the cap and resistors values of the Jubilee tone stack are more like a JTM45 or a Super Bass than a Super Lead or a 2203/4.
The master volume of the 2203 and the Jubilee are in the same location in the circuit.
The 2210 is significantly different from either the 2203/4 or the Jubilee.
The JVM clean channel has much more in common with the 2210.
V1B is actually used by the Rhythm/clean channel as well. If you look at the schematic, is does look confusing in that branch. But the switching via the relay coil is a very clever changing of the grid load to grid resistor assignments and how they revert to ground. You (as well as many others have thought) are probably seeing the signal bypassing around V1B via R6. That 220K R6 is a grid load for the input/hrid of V1B when on Lead mode. On Rhythm mode, it reverts to providing local NFB out of V1B back around to its input.
We discussed this on the forum quite a few years ago. I ended up experimenting with R6 on my 2555 hand wired Clone to really get a grasp on it.
If you lift the Lead mode/channel clipping circuit, Lead has the same tonal character as the Rhythm but just with a huge volume increase that actually gets very unstable and can oscillate or motor boat.
I have the studio jubilee and however I dial the amp it’s always either loses the saturation in high master volume or if I have it quiet it’s flabby like a fuzz pedal all of this in the lead channel.
How do you dial to have a good 80s classic heavy metal tone (Maiden, Priest, Saxon, accept etc)
I run the output master near maxed when playing loud. Lead master 7 input gain around 7 its tight and focused. Just bought a Keeley compressor +its awesome it the especially in the clean channel
I have always been curious of how the split channels 2205/2210 compare to the Jubilee gain wise. To me it always seems like the split channels have a lot more gain than the jubilee and are voiced a little brighter.
Get a 2210
Did Maiden and Priest had Split Channels ?.....just curious!
Posted this before but this is a crappy Iphone clip done with my 2205,.....only the amp with some delay and a vibe .
Compared to my 2555SL , the 2205 has a frikken big fat four inch gain pipe kinda sound ,..the best amp I ever had for lead tones !,.......I thought that the crucnh was a little flubby but since I got a 1984 SD-1, it really brings some tight crunch closer to a 2204/2203 ,...they go well together .
For some reason ,..the 2205 can take OD pedals and Fuzz better than the jubilee but a Klon with the Jube
is just awesome !
Yes I see that now. Thank you.
If one is familar with the RCA tube manual 5F6A circuit (Tweed Fender Bassman) one can clearly see the common DNA from generation to generation:
Tweed (Bassman and Twin)> JTM45> Plexi> 2203/4>Jubilee> JCM900 MKIII/SLX>....
One could include the Soldano SLO (which is copied by the Mesa Rectifier in the preamp) in that family tree as well. I would not include the DSL classic gain channel clean clean here, but the ultra channel could be.
All of these with the exception of the Jubilee use a cathode follower tone stack. The Jubilee uses a plate follower.
Another interesting circuit DNA analysis could be the Mullard tube manual circuit which was very similar to the RCA 5F6 that Dave Reeves used as the basis of the Hiwatt circuit but used a plate follower tone stack. (Orange/Matamp was a completely different beast)
The 2205/10 is actually a radical departure from the above circuit family tree in terms of topology, but maybe not in terms of sound.
Thanks for the clip. The 2205 sounds killer. I think they sound great for modern metal. I would never get rid of my Jubilee but I could see myself getting a 2205 to go with it. I feel like the Jubilee needs a boost for leads and even thrash rhythm parts. I bet the 2205 would be fine straight in. The Jubilee has a much smoother sound but the 2205 sounds more aggressive.
70's - early 80's they played metal panel 1959 model SLPs
Maiden used MXR Distortion+ and Micro Amp pedals with them, and Tipton in JP used a Rangemaster
Someone asked about sounds. The 2210 nails it. Imo. Whether or not split channels are in the amp. If we are going to be specific and limit to all gear used then beter get the right gauge strings, pedals, clothings, etc
Agreed !.........this little girl doesn't care about the amp or string gauge Yngwie used ,....she just plays !
or I should say rips !.....Haha!