The Recording Thread

Discussion in 'The Tone Zone' started by blues_n_cues, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Del Rei

    Del Rei Well-Known Member

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    Wow!
    That sounds very good, man. Excellent playing too! :)
    Never tried this Vermuram, but from what I hear, it sounds really good.
    I always try to increase the input gain in the mic as much as possible, but I'll do some tests like you said! That double hard panning must be interesting too... I'll try it as well.
    Thanks. man!! \o/
     
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  2. twangsta

    twangsta Member

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    Thanks mate! Good luck, happy rockin :)
     
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  3. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    I am saddened to have just learned of the sad passing of Martin Birch. He passed away last Sunday, August 9, at the age of 71. The news was announced on Iron Maiden's website. The link is below.
    https://www.ironmaiden.com/news/article/rip-martin-birch-1948-2020

    Martin Birch's work was my main inspiration in recording, and I have spent years studying his work and researching his techniques. He will be greatly missed. Never again will we have such beautifully produced heavy metal.
     
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  4. twangsta

    twangsta Member

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    That is sad news indeed, Fear of the Dark was my favourite album of theirs. Always liked their sound.

    Been trying to get a more classic YJM sound, I used to dime my amp except for vol2 at zero, now I got presence 0, bass 0, middle 10, treble 6, vol1 10, vol2 0, no jumper.
    Using a Boiling point on the clean boost mode, vol and tone midway, drive one notch up from midway. I've had the amp about a year, still getting to know it, nothing straight forward about the controls, they really interact in a complex way I think, but it's getting better.


    I love this riff, just a first pass fitting the riff into the track. I thought the tone was better than my previous attempts.

    edit: fixed the link.
     
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  5. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Great recording! How on earth do you do that?
     
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  6. twangsta

    twangsta Member

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    Working on a new track, simple 80s cliches :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  7. Midnight Blues

    Midnight Blues Well-Known Member

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    I've been going through my old Guitar Player magazines, tearing-out lessons/articles that I want to save before trashing the rest of the magazine and being the huge Frampton fan that I have been/am (50 years next year), I came across this article and thought I'd share. I hope that at least some of you will find it useful/enjoyable:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    :cheers:
     
  8. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Five mics to record a guitar amp! Apparently, phase isn't an issue for Peter Frampton. I often wonder how the modern engineers get great tones with just an SM57. Bobby Torres swears by just an SM57 in "the right spot." So does Jordan Valeriote. And Andy Sneap (although Andy sometimes employed a second close mic, but he used to rely on just an SM57). To me, the close mic never sounds anything like the sound in the room. Also, after having completely abandoned the idea of ever again placing an SM57 squarely at the center of the cone, because it sounds too papery and too harsh for me, it is ironic that Peter Frampton thinks the center position sounds "too honky" for him. The last word that comes to my mind when I think of the center placement is "honky."

    Very useful article. Thank you.
     
  9. twangsta

    twangsta Member

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    Talking about 5 mics! Check the bass setup :shock:

    SM57 squared center would really depend on the kind to tone and speaker, I totally agree with you, it's too harsh, I prefer it closer to the edge of the cone. I'm using T75s, I don't know most folks look down on them but for my needs there perfect which is mostly high gain.




    A small sample of some song ideas I was working on, mic'd closer to the edge of the cone up close, no eq on all but the last. This works great especially if I double track. But I'm just working with what I have, I'd love to have a nice ribbon to get a good room sound someday.
     
  10. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting song ideas. I wish I could start a band with you.

    I have the G12T-75's in one of my 112 cabs, but I don't use them as much, just because I know my V30's so well for recording that switching would require relearning the speaker. I don't get the hate the G12T-75's get. They can be a little too energetic in the treble region and call attention to themselves a lot in the mix, but they sound good to me. Having researched them quite a bit and worked with them a bit, however, I was under the impression that they can be recorded on the dust cap edge or even a bit close to the center due to their bigger dust cap.

    I can't claim I know everything about everything, but I learn something new every day. Today, I was watching this video by Johann Segeborn, in which he reviewed the DSL20CR, which I also have. I noticed not only that he was apparently mic'ing pretty close to the center with an SM57, but he also had his mids, treble, and presence all on 10. I think the reason he was able to mic close to the center was, because his volume was also on 10, where, on the DSL20CR, at least, the bright cap is removed from the circuit and the amp thickens up considerable, with a noticeable rounding in the top end.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjnQYnnqPgI

    So, the lesson for me was that traditional mic placement can work really well, but it is situation dependent. If I am mic'ing at lower volumes, I am always struggling to find a good spot, and nothing sounds good enough to me. If I place the mic at the cap edge, the high end is thin and abrasive, the mids fizzy and hollow, and the bottom end flabby. If I place it more toward the surround, it gains more body, but at the expense of sounding dull and too dark. Moving the mic away from the grille helps some, but introduces more room, more thinness, and more brittleness with an SM57.
     
  11. twangsta

    twangsta Member

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    Wow, that's the huge compliment, thanks. Still always open to some collab work. I'm based in India, so limited options :/
    Can't wait to get out next year to Goa and fire a band up. One of the reasons I keep trying to work on songs.

    I had a fall out with my keyboard player (based in LA), we were working remotely, he had a lot of issues with the tools, remarkably technically-challenged, just couldn't get the tools, great musician but temperament and workflow was a mess, unfortunately. In the end, I gave up for that and various reasons.

    That is correct about the bright cap.

    In my case all those recordings have everything set to 10 except Vol2 which is at 0, I tend to keep the amp jumpered with vol2 at 0. The only reasons I can manage this is the RR100 has a great PPIMV, I'm not sure what implementation it is but it sounds very good almost from the get-go, there can be a little fuzz at whisper levels.

    I use this one cab all the time, bought it new and have noticed the tone distinctly improve 3 or 4 times, over the year I've had it. Now, these are the stock Chinese made T75s. I love YJM and the tone is spot on for me. I had a buddy bring over a V30 cab, we tried them both back to back, both were good but for different things, my personal preference was the lowly T75s, like you I guess we're just used to what we're used to :)

    Bang on about the mic placement, if I had to put a scale to it, zero being the cap edge, and 10 the outer cone edge, I'm usually around 7ish at my practice volume, as I raise the PPIMV volume I can get closer to the cap but I haven't gotten too close as I have my folks at the farm due to covid.

    It's true about learning as you go; One year in with this rig and I've shed a lot of misinformation, the Vemuram Karen sounded terrible initially with the rig, put it into storage, busted it out after 9 months and damn was I surprised at how 3Dimentional, rich it was, same amp settings but on the pedal drive 0 vol full, tone middle. Learn something new every day!

    I need a longer patch cable now for the NS2 loop. I've got about 5 drives including a boost! All flavours I love, though to me it's down to what works with either pickup, neck or bridge, some do both balanced, some start to lose definition on low notes with the neck pup, though in those cases I bet a V30 or something brighter may fix that, btw I did find the V30 a brighter, is that a common assessment compared to a T75, granted my T75 have been well used the V30 to so much at that point.

    edit: also at gig volumes I'm expecting those pickup imbalances to go away, the amp does clear up with power tube saturation but the 100 watts do terrify me for recording situations. I refuse to use an attenuator or DI/IR thing, what's the point, it never feels or sounds right; pick attack and transients are still way off.

    Had a kemper for a while, sounded good but wasn't sure if my input was me or the Kemper massaging things. Old recording with the kemper.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  12. Australian

    Australian Green Beret Silver Supporting Member VIP Member

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    CLA's new free black friday Waves plugin. Could come in handy on guitars. It even has an interesting modulation effect on it.


     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  13. twangsta

    twangsta Member

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    For fun :)
     
  14. Ramo

    Ramo Well-Known Member

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    Can any of you help me out???

    i use pro tool first ( i hate it ) now my cloud storage is 45% full, i dont have any project going and i deleted and cleared local cach...

    i wrote to Avid but they are not willing to help as i use pro tools first and i dont have assistants option with my acc.

    Read forums but cant find info...

    Dose anyone know how to delete everything and reset cloud storage ?


    thanks in advance
     
  15. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Lately I've been test-recording with the SM57 exactly halfway between the center of the cone and the surround (edge of the cone), on-axis, on the grille, and it sounds great as far as close-miked tone goes. After consulting a bunch of expert opinions, this video by Ace made the most sense, and after revisiting his advice and trying out his approach again, I realized that he is right. I can get very solid tones with my DSL15's volume barely above 2, which will keep the neighbor's happy.


    Unfortunately, due to the directional and complex nature of guitar speakers, there is, however, no silver bullet when it comes to close-miking. You are always capturing only one aspect of the speaker's output, and usually it comes down to choosing the least evil. The mid-way position does a good job with reducing the abrasive high end, but it can sound dull and pokey in the mids. Considering how close-miking is a battle that can't be won, I think the best thing one can do is to get the amp sounding good in the room and then just accept the outcome of close-miking, whatever happens.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  16. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    I need your help, guys. I am trying to determine just how bad my room is for recording. I have noticed that if I play individual notes and record, when I play the C, D, and E notes (3rd, 5th, and 7th fret on A string), the recorded wave becomes fan shaped if I hold the note and apply a vibrato and let the note ring out. There is a big increase in amplitude with the note ringing out, as opposed to just hitting the note briefly or rhythmically. The phenomenon is particularly, and almost primarily, pronounced in the neighborhood of those three notes, which the graph shows as being around 130Hz–180Hz. I was wondering if someone on here with a good room could give me a reference. Have you observed the same phenomenon in good rooms, or is this sound build-up likely the result of my room's poor acoustics?
     
  17. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    using an open back cab/combo, you can tune the cab to the room (somewhat)...

    That's why many use a closed back speaker, in a large room. The other way to tune the room is by getting some acoustic foam.

    You have to make sure though, that the issue isn't a source problem though, meaning guitar/amp/speaker...
     
  18. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    I am confused. First you say "using an open back cab/combo, you can tune the cab to the room," but then you say "That's why many use a closed back speaker, in a large room." Can you clarify what you mean?
     
  19. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    open back cab's throw a lot of reflection everywhere. Closed backs are directional.

    In studio, when tracking guitar, they do not place the speaker cab next to a wall. They put a 1960 in the middle of the room & mic it up close & then find distances, that are inline w/ the point of direction.

    An open back shoots sound backwards & relies on a wall behind it. The sound is tuned by the wall, it's part of the overall design.

    Or, in studios, they use acoustic materials, whether it be sound curtain, foam, fiber insulation/burlap, Roxwool, etc. to tune the room.

    I have heard, in bass cab's, that using a tube amp w/ a ported cab, the cab will fart out at certain frequencies. I think though, that was low C, which is an octave below what you are talking about, but, the idea could be similar.

    The difference though, they are saying that the speakers fart out, even at lower power settings than the rated handling capacity.

    You need to figure out, if the sound is from the source, or the room. Deaden the room, then record. If you still hear it, you'll know.
     
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  20. Seventh Son

    Seventh Son Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain what you mean by "mic it up close & then find distances, that are inline w/ the point of direction"

    The question I had was not about speakers farting out, which should be impossible with a puny DSL15 with volume on 2 putting out sound through a V30, a 60-Watt speaker, and one of the stiffest, tightest speakers out there with a big magnet.

    What I am talking about is a swelling of the notes (most noticeable with the C, D, and E notes on the A string, 3rd, 5th, and 7th fret), where the audio wave fans out as soon as the note is held and allowed to ring out while applying vibrato. I don't have the space or resources to acoustically proof my apartment, which is why I was wondering whether anyone of you has noticed the swelling of individual notes in more ideal rooms.
     

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