The Recording Thread

LyseFar

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Was in the studio last night tracking on my Super Lead. It is only rythmguitar but I thought it could be funny to post the setup and settings in general:

Amp:
Marshall JMP Super Lead

Mics:
SM57 and a Samson C01 for room/ambience,
IMG_1699.JPG

IMG_1698.JPG

Effect:
TC Booster + Linedriver & Distortion (Set as booster)

Inkedeff_small_LI_1.jpg

Interface:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen with Focusrite OctoPre ADAT extension.

DAW:
Cubase Elements. No post-processing.

Guitar:
Fender US Lonestar strat neck pickup (late 90's).

Settings:
Left: Channels linked both on volume 7, presence: 8, bass: 3, middle: 6, treble: 5
Right: Volume I channel only with volume on 8, presence 8, bass: 4, middle: 6, treble: 5
Marshall 1960AX cab.

Here is the clip:


It's kind of an old school approach and the sound is dirty and the tubes are cooking - but I think it will set fine in the final mix - time will tell. It's all about sonic space.
Feel free to comment - I take critisism very well :)
 
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Seventh Son

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Was in the studio last night tracking on my Super Lead. It is only rythmguitar but I thought it could be funny to post the setup and settings in general:

Amp:
Marshall JMP Super Lead

Mics:
SM57 and a Samson C01 for room/ambience,
View attachment 51430

View attachment 51431

Effect:
TC Booster + Linedriver & Distortion (Set as booster)

View attachment 51438

Interface:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen with Focusrite OctoPre ADAT extension.

DAW:
Cubase Elements. No post-processing.

Guitar:
Fender US Lonestar strat neck pickup (late 90's).

Settings:
Left: Channels linked both on volume 7, presence: 8, bass: 3, middle: 6, treble: 5
Right: Volume I channel only with volume on 8, presence 8, bass: 4, middle: 6, treble: 5
Marshall 1960AX cab.

Here is the clip:


It's kind of an old school approach and the sound is dirty and the tubes are cooking - but I think it will set fine in the final mix - time will tell. It's all about sonic space.
Feel free to comment - I take critisism very well :)

That sounds great. Those Lonestar Strat's are some of my favorite strats of all time. Still remember the day I played one back in the '90s.

Through experimentation with mic positioning, I today learned about the importance of backing off the mic. I see that you did the same, even more than I did (I live in an apartment and can't afford to crank the amp). Otherwise, I get a lot of bass buildup that is not noticeable in isolated tracks, but really muddies up everything when embedded in a mix. I also learned just how important the midrange is. Every time I think I've figured out how to get my tone on tape, I realize I still have too much fizz and not nearly enough mids, so now I place the SM57 pretty much at the edge of the speaker and even tilt it away from the center to further shut out the fizz coming from there. When I'm recording my DSL20CR at home, the master volume is on 2.5 and my settings are already pretty mid-heavy.
Bass: 2
Middle: 8
Treble: 2
Presence: 2

Do you think this is a workable volume, or is this why I have to move the mic so far away from the center to combat the fizz at the beginning of the recording chain? I can't believe how many pros recommend putting the mic close to the grille and either dead center, or somewhere around there. What's your take on this?
 

LyseFar

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That sounds great. Those Lonestar Strat's are some of my favorite strats of all time. Still remember the day I played one back in the '90s.

Through experimentation with mic positioning, I today learned about the importance of backing off the mic. I see that you did the same, even more than I did (I live in an apartment and can't afford to crank the amp). Otherwise, I get a lot of bass buildup that is not noticeable in isolated tracks, but really muddies up everything when embedded in a mix. I also learned just how important the midrange is. Every time I think I've figured out how to get my tone on tape, I realize I still have too much fizz and not nearly enough mids, so now I place the SM57 pretty much at the edge of the speaker and even tilt it away from the center to further shut out the fizz coming from there. When I'm recording my DSL20CR at home, the master volume is on 2.5 and my settings are already pretty mid-heavy.
Bass: 2
Middle: 8
Treble: 2
Presence: 2

Do you think this is a workable volume, or is this why I have to move the mic so far away from the center to combat the fizz at the beginning of the recording chain? I can't believe how many pros recommend putting the mic close to the grille and either dead center, or somewhere around there. What's your take on this?

Thank you. I don't know much about the DSL20CR but I have experimented a bit with the classic channel on a DSL50 head (not my own) and found that I had to run the gain quite low and also, as you describe, a lot of mids.
Never recorded it though. As the DSL50 still is in our studio I would very much like to try with the settings and volume you describe to do it and then post my results.
I don't think that you should be too afraid if you encounter fizz on your recordings. My experience on this tells me that every amp has a problem area or two regarding certain frequencies and that can easily be fixed in post-processing. The fizz area is in the 5-10k area.
Here is a shot of the eq of another recording where there is a bass cut and an anoying resonance I had to remove at 350 hz. I have also found that there nearly always is a problem area around 5k.

eq.gif

Regarding the mic placement I think you get a bit closer to the actual amp sound with the mic backed off a bit - especially when recording at high volume. Also a room mic helps on this - but when you do this you must be sure to check the phasing on your tracks and also maybe in post-processing set a time-shift to prevent the natural reverb/delay effect. Unless thats what you want of course.
 

Seventh Son

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Thank you. I don't know much about the DSL20CR but I have experimented a bit with the classic channel on a DSL50 head (not my own) and found that I had to run the gain quite low and also, as you describe, a lot of mids.
Never recorded it though. As the DSL50 still is in our studio I would very much like to try with the settings and volume you describe to do it and then post my results.
I don't think that you should be too afraid if you encounter fizz on your recordings. My experience on this tells me that every amp has a problem area or two regarding certain frequencies and that can easily be fixed in post-processing. The fizz area is in the 5-10k area.
Here is a shot of the eq of another recording where there is a bass cut and an anoying resonance I had to remove at 350 hz. I have also found that there nearly always is a problem area around 5k.

View attachment 51507

Regarding the mic placement I think you get a bit closer to the actual amp sound with the mic backed off a bit - especially when recording at high volume. Also a room mic helps on this - but when you do this you must be sure to check the phasing on your tracks and also maybe in post-processing set a time-shift to prevent the natural reverb/delay effect. Unless thats what you want of course.
Thank you. I compared my track with a reference track I've been using as a rough guide on what kind of sound I wanted, and I noticed that I can get very close to it by further raising mids in Garageband. So, it appears I need still more mids and less fizz. What I am going to do, is pin mids on my amp at 10, instead of 8, which I thought was already quite a lot but necessary to get anything semi-recordable on tape. I realize that I can fix many things in post-processing, but I'd like to get the tone right at the source. It's just crazy how the sound that I would like to be able to reproduce appears to have almost no bass, no highs, and is nothing but mids. Marshall really should retune its amps to give them a bigger range, as the most interesting and useful metal tones are actually found on the extreme side of EQ settings. Here's a sample of the reference track. The tones I find interesting are at 1:00 (verse) and 2:20 (chorus). It's a slightly brighter and more mid-heavy tone than I like to use, but I'd like to be able to recreate it, as many '80s bands used this tone as their starting point. It's a very classic tone.



How much of a difference did the room mic make in your case, and what were the biggest differences? Corollary question: Do you think it is necessary to use a room mic for good results?
 
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LyseFar

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Thank you. I compared my track with a reference track I've been using as a rough guide on what kind of sound I wanted, and I noticed that I can get very close to it by further raising mids in Garageband. So, it appears I need still more mids and less fizz. What I am going to do, is pin mids on my amp at 10, instead of 8, which I thought was already quite a lot but necessary to get anything semi-recordable sounds on tape.

How much of a difference did the room mic make in your case, and what where the biggest differences? Corollary question: Do you think it isnecessary to use a room mic for good results?

As we are a poor band trying to get by as cheap as possible, we track our stuff ourself and then we go somewhere to get a pro to mix it. The guy/studio we work with (who is absolutely top shelf in my opinion) wants as much as possible to work with and therefore we always add some room ambience mics on guitars and drums. We were mixing there friday and he was very pleased with our ambience recordings and used them.
That said - it is totally possible to make a great guitar recording with only one mic.

Edit: I just heard the reference tracks. I will try to get the DSL50 to sound like that. Lot of reberb - Lexicon -> 224xl or something. Great sounding.
 
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Seventh Son

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As we are a poor band trying to get by as cheap as possible, we track our stuff ourself and then we go somewhere to get a pro to mix it. The guy/studio we work with (who is absolutely top shelf in my opinion) wants as much as possible to work with and therefore we always add some room ambience mics on guitars and drums. We was mixing there friday and he was very pleased with our ambience recordings and used them.
That said - it is totally possible to make a great guitar recording with only one mic.

Edit: I just heard the reference tracks. I will try to get the DSL50 to sound like that. Lot of reberb - Lexicon -> 224xl or something. Great sounding.
I think the reverb on the isolated track is natural. Martin Birch loved using big wooden rooms and multiple room mics to get a sound like that. Maybe that’s what enhances the midrange and treble on those tracks.

Here’s another similar-sounding isolated track that I find interesting. It’s also mostly mids and treble.

I’ll try recording my amp with mids maxed out right after breakfast. I’ll also try turning Bass down to zero, as I’ve noticed that to get that sound in post-processing, I also have to apply some low cut.
 
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Seventh Son

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As we are a poor band trying to get by as cheap as possible, we track our stuff ourself and then we go somewhere to get a pro to mix it. The guy/studio we work with (who is absolutely top shelf in my opinion) wants as much as possible to work with and therefore we always add some room ambience mics on guitars and drums. We was mixing there friday and he was very pleased with our ambience recordings and used them.
That said - it is totally possible to make a great guitar recording with only one mic.

Edit: I just heard the reference tracks. I will try to get the DSL50 to sound like that. Lot of reberb - Lexicon -> 224xl or something. Great sounding.
I tried my idea and it worked! These are the DSL20CR settings.
Bass 0
Middle 10
Treble 0
Presence 3
Resonance 0 (or to taste, if you have a combo)
Gain 5
Microphone very close to edge, tilted about 45˚ away from speaker center, about an inch away from the grille.
The settings may seem extreme, but remember that most guys in the '80s pushed their amps with Tubescreamers, treble boosters, and parametric EQs, often with two or more of those on this list at the same time.
 

LyseFar

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I tried my idea and it worked! These are the DSL20CR settings.
Bass 0
Middle 10
Treble 0
Presence 3
Resonance 0 (or to taste, if you have a combo)
Gain 5
Microphone very close to edge, tilted about 45˚ away from speaker center, about an inch away from the grille.
The settings may seem extreme, but remember that most guys in the '80s pushed their amps with Tubescreamers, treble boosters, and parametric EQs, often with two or more of those on this list at the same time.

Great news. I'm looking forward to try out the dsl50 to see how it behaves.
 

steveb63

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Happy Sunday everyone.

I have a quick question for you experienced home recording enthusiasts, I did a search but the results were kinda confusing.

Going from my d.i. output on my Marshall Origin to input on my Boss digital recorder.
Instrument or speaker cable?

Thanks in advance for any help
Steve
 

Dogs of Doom

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Happy Sunday everyone.

I have a quick question for you experienced home recording enthusiasts, I did a search but the results were kinda confusing.

Going from my d.i. output on my Marshall Origin to input on my Boss digital recorder.
Instrument or speaker cable?


Thanks in advance for any help
Steve
instrument...
 

Kim Lucky Day

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The DAW I use is Magix Samplitude Music Studio 2016. Has a ton of features for the incredibly low price I paid for it ($75) and while I have only been recording for 3 years, it pretty much does what I want it to.

Except for one key thing- I cannot figure out how to fade out a recording. I know how to fade out individual tracks but this can be hit or miss if trying to do so in unison. It seems if a track is hotter than the others in the mix, it is the last track to fade out and it sounds off. I would think there has to be a way that you can select all tracks and fade them all but I can't quite figure it out.

Not sure if anyone else uses this DAW or if perhaps other programs use a similar option that I may be able to figure out how to apply in my own program...

Thanks in advance for your help!
 

Kim Lucky Day

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I figured this would be done in the mastering process but I can't figure out how...
 

SmokeyDopey

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Yep, like DoD said. When the mix is done, export or bounce the the whole thing as a stereo track, then open a new project just with that stereo track and apply the fade there.

Or you can automate the master fader in the mix project.
I've never used that DAW so I don't know what options are more practical.
 

Dogs of Doom

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do the mixdown & save the track. Open the track in your DAW as a music file. Choose the spot, where you want your fade to start & then highlight the file from that point, until the end of the track:

fade000.png

choose fade out:

fade001.png

finished fade slope:

fade002.png

then save again.

You can fade & undo it, if you don't like the fade. I suggest not saving over the original unfaded file, but choose save as & rename it as filename-faded. Always keep the original file. Then you have options later, if, for some reason you decide to do something different...
 

Kim Lucky Day

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Never thought of importing the finished mp3 file back into my DAW and fading this way... Excellent advice, thank you!
 


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