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Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Michael Roe, Jan 26, 2019.
Welcome to the forum new brother
I've done it with mine but used a boost pedal in the loop. Not sure why a volume pedal wouldn't work in this manner.
Thanks Kim Lucky Day I have the Origin50h & I heard the SV20h blows the Origin away but I read it somewhere & it stopped me from buying it. I personally couldn't undertsand why & didn't want to drop that kind of cash & have it unsable. I feel better knowing it'll work.
It works in the same manner as in the Origin 50h. The rest depends on your personal expectations and scenario. It does lower the volume even if you crank the amp so it does "work".
It also takes a lot of the gain and complex harmonics that comes with turning the amp up, as most of the gain in these amps come from the power stage, and that stage is being hit by a weak signal. Especially of you attenuate a lot of volume in the pot / send most of it to ground.
So it kind of defeats the purpose of cranking the amp, which is to get that gain & harmonics in the first place. You will probably need to rely on a pedal to get you there (nothing wrong with that).
Thanks assaf110 I'm familiar with the 59SLP & was really hoping the SV20h would be quite enough but maintain that bacon sizzle from them power section & nail that AC/DC, KISS, Zeppelin (I know they used Hi-Watt) & more tone. Where the Origin seems to lack. I have the PedalPalfx to get me in the JCM 800 park & the MRX 5150. Even on the low setting it's super loud cause the Origin doesn't come alive until around 6 on the Master but still lacks that 59SLP sweetness. You gave me insight as to why someone said it won't work. I don't want to use attenuator cause I know it sucks sound & it's hard on the tubes & stuff. I was banking on the volume pedal.
i beg to differ.
I use the SV20H with a volume box (so pretty much exactly the same as using a volume pedal in the loop), and spent a couple hours yesterday using it in a stereo rig splitting signal at the loop to get to the FX return of a DSL100 (so a 100w power section that is entirely clean), so I can tell you exactly how much gain comes from the preamp on this amp.
And the answer is: quite a bit. With both volumes at 6-7, I have about the same amount of crunch as what I get from the DSL on Red 1 with gain at 3-4. And (I tested it yesterday) that fuzzy warm grind you get from diming Normal volume is in a large part in the preamp section (again, I tested this specifically). Anyhow you get largely enough gain that way to get in Malcolm territory. Even Angus if you boost it slightly. A Tubescreamer with level cranked and gain a 3-ish gets me late-70s rock/early metal amounts of gain (think early Judas Priest, Schenker with UFO, that kind of stuff), and my home-made Guvnor with gain at noon, level at 4-ish and hard clipping off (I have a switch that allows me to select between no clipping, LED clipping and silicon clipping) got me into 80s hard rock/metal territory all day. So pinched harmonics, tapping, legato, you name it (I was practicing EVH's solo to Beat It and Jump, or George Lynch's lead break to In My Dreams amongst other things). While being at loud TV volume (my 3yr old fell asleep while watching cartoons 3 rooms away from where I was), so at stage volume it'll be even easier to play.
So yeah, by dimming level at the FX loop, you lose some of the complexity of the power section (and PI) saturation, but it still very much sounds the way you expect it to.
It also still is warmer, more dynamic and touch sensitive than the DSL at a similar setting (again, I A/Bed both amps at similar levels and settings...though I could get pretty close on the DSL). And it still isn't a bedroom amp by any means unless you dim it severely, but IME no tube amp shines at TV levels, as you can't get the speakers moving at that kind of volume.
Of course, the louder you get, the better it'll sound, but that's pretty much the case with any tube amp. But it also has a lot to do with how speakers behave, and the good old Fletcher/Munson effect. And you definitely can get that cranked "Plexi" tone at a volume that's very loud (enough to compete with a loud drummer, depending on your speaker setup) instead of being deafening and unbearable for anyone in a 30ft range.
YMMV of course, but that's my experience with it.
Obviously, it’s better as the volume goes up.
How much better? That’s where the personal subjective views comes in.
One person will call it close enough, the other one will complain that it sucks too much tone.
And it’s also depends on the amount of attenuation needed.
So it’s understandable why there is a debate about the effectiveness of the volume pedal in the loop..
So, I am thrilled to hear about your findings, we’llburnthesky. Truth being told, I haven’t gave it enough chance. Also never played SLP1959...
Yes definitely. Every person hears things differently, connects to the amp in a different way, and expects different things from one's amp. Plus all use different guitars (with different pickups), different FX chains, and most importantly, different cabs and speakers (at different degrees of wear, to boot)...and at different volumes, with different musicians, etc. The list goes on.
So yeah, there's no hard and fast rules about what will or won't work.
Nevertheless, glad my experience with the amp could be of use to anyone !
As a side note, I've played a bunch of SLPs, and at a bearable level (meaning, a level at which you won't hurt yourself standing in front of the amp, won't get insults from bandmates/club owners/audience members, and won't kill any small animal who'd get the bad idea of stepping with 30ft of the amp...not mentioning won't get uncontrollable feedback if you open up the guitar's volume while standing less than a few meters away from said amp), the tones we expect aren't there...that's the reason why EVH started down the Variac path after all And why Marshall released the JMP.
I had the opportunity to compare fx loops of the SV20 and the SC20.
I can confirm on the SC there is a volume drop which there isn't on the SV
And thx again for greetings and help on this thread
Thanks for that very insightful info it helps me make a better choice!
Today I took the jubilee over my girlfriends condo which is little bass heavy in her basement the ÉH tubes and found them kinda dull compared to the stock Tungsols especially doing power chords with the 6th and 5th strings! I noticed at my house they were less bright so I thought it might be a good thing. But I'm putting those tungsols back in they have more bite and that.
Also going to try some in the SV combo also to liven it up more they cost a little more but worth it. Is you have a really bright Marshall the ÉH might be best.
Yeah, it’s not that you can’t, it’s that purists want power amp distortion. As with all things, you should try it and see if you get a sound YOU like.
... no, is not a purist thing... power tube distortion is distinctly different and the reason people have been begging, crying, screaming for a 20 watt plexi for years... half the amp industry has for years been about trying to recreate a plexi on full at any level... if there was an easy solution, everybody would happily play their 1959's all the time... there isn't, hence the sv20h... if you still need a master volume, which is understandable, get a sc20 instead, it's a good amp better suited for those who need to keep things down
Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with you. I prefer power stage distortion myself. I tend to be a purist; it’s not an insult, but it is a preference. My advice was that he wouldn’t break his amp and he should see if he likes it. And as you said, the plexi is popular for being cranked (by purists) but he’s not bound to that.
"plexi is popular for being cranked (by purists) but he’s not bound to that." - strongly agree! That guy Burgs has a great SV20 clean tone demo on YouTube that sounds fantastic. Hell, I owned a Germino that was stupid loud but the clean tones alone were to die for and completely manageable.
I just bought an SV20 today (haven't heard or seen one in person) to be shipped tomorrow.
I'm going to try that JHS blackbox in the loop first to see how well it works. I hear everyone on "power amp distortion" breakup, but I want to at least try this option. I'm not really looking to dime the amp (although of course I will for testing) but looking for edge of breakup tones with a live, loud backline. Then using my Fractal AX8 for drives and FX up front.
4CM is too many cables and a PITA, but I will still test it out.
I may also find running the AX8 into the FX loop return and using it as an EL34 based tube power amp works well also.
Tons of options and experimentation and many different scenarios for me to test.
I think if I was just a home player I would not even consider the SV20 without setting aside cash for a Fryette Power Station 2 or similar.
5 (or 20) LOUD watts seems insane at home, but throw in a gorilla behind the kit, second guitar, thumping bass, etc... it can actually be the perfect amount.
Of course I want to be able to use the amp in all situations, home and live.
We shall see.
I'm a classic rock guy. Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, KISS, Joe Walsh, Van Halen, Judas Priest, ect. I have the Origin50H & I know the low watts is loud for the bedroom & the power section doesn't kick in until around 6. I'm not into clean & I know AC/DC is fairly clean with a clean boost. The Origin doesn't seem to have something or it's just me cause I'm not a great player. I thought the SV20H would get me there. I like a lot of 80's 90's & Rob Zombie, Zakk Wydle, White Stripes, Steel Panther stuff & have the Pedalpalfx 800 Gold along with the MRX EVH 5150 to take care of the newer stuff that they used a JCM800. But I'm chasing that classic tone. I'm not a purist but if I can get 90% there I'd be happy.
The origin 50 and the SV20 can nail 60’s-70’s classic rock no problem. I don’t play 80’s or High gain stuff though so I cannot comment there. But neither the origin or SV20 are high gain amps and neither were the plexis or the metal face super leads.
I’ve did direct comparison of an SV20 and a 1959 and it’s there.
I just recently did a direct comparison of an origin 50 and a 1987 first gen reissue without the effects loop and honestly for the money the origin wins and frankly I think origin sounds a little warmer.
Volume wise you have to get SV cranking so it going to be loud FYI.
Try an mxr 10 band eq in front of the origin, makes for a huge game changer!
I know the Origin was kind a like a plexi but not really but I'm little confused when you say neither the Origin or the SV20 are plexi or super lead but then you said the SV20 compared to the 1959 it was there. Wasn't the 1959 considered a plexi? I was afraid of the SV20 having to be cranked in order to get it to break up which was one of the reasons I was holding off. You don't by chance have a clip comparing the Origin vs the 1987x uploaded do you?