SV20H MK2 - Solo boost

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Bergstrom, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Raimo

    Raimo Member

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    The end of the day, you should see it all as signal chain. If you raise the signal before gain stage, it will produce gain. If you raise the volume after the gain stage, it will raise volume.
     
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  2. Raimo

    Raimo Member

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    You can use boost and overdrive peals in many different ways. This is how to use it.

    BOSS GE-7: In the loop to higher the volume on solos. I use the volume fader and bring up 500hz to get a bit mid that cuts through. In the loop but works in front of amp as well.

    Tubescreamer: In front of amp. This pedals works for adding gain to already gained amp. A trick is to have drive on zero and volume on max. The dist you get is pretty much transparent and pretty much sound as the amp. Another trick is to have gain on max, tone on zero and volume on max. Works with scooped metal sound to add some bite. In front of amp.

    Clean boost (lika MXR Microamp): Works well for bite on weak guitars like singlecoil and to get the clean sound a bit more singing. Think Brad Paysley. It also works to drive a already distorted amp, like Jimmy Page sound from the amp and a bit more singing leads but not changing the character of the amp. In front of amp or in the loop to raise volume for leads.

    Mid boost: Think Toto and Steve Lukather, a full dist sound from amp but to even out for more singing notes. Steve pretty much have his modern sound very scooped but with mid boost so it sings. In front of amp.

    Treble boost: The thing for a mid sound to get more dist and crispy notes. In front of amp.


    In the loop I would only use EQ and clean boost to bring up volume. I have all this in my GT-1000 with 4C but if I dont had that, I would buy the Boss EQ times two. My amp has dist so I dont really need other than pushing the amps dist and Boss EQ is perfect for that because by bringing up 500hz I get mid boost as well. So two Boss GE-7 EQ pedals and a Marshall amp with two channels would give me the variations I need. I would set the amps dist channel to chrunch and use the EQ to push it to heavy rock dist and that way have clean, crunch and full lead sound. With the other EQ in the loop, I would be able to kick it in for leads, to raise the volume and wake up my soundguy and make my bandsmates back off my solo. Specially the drummer who needs to back off from his long brakes and cymbal smashing. Fire every drummer who doesnt understand that.
     
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  3. Sustainium

    Sustainium Well-Known Member

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    500Hz ?

    AD0DFEF8-F03A-43A0-B61C-591CCC0E6622.jpeg
     
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  4. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    It actually does, at mid to lower frequencies. You can hear it for yourself if you set up an amp to really clean, don't boost the level on the tubescreamer (don't push the amp into clipping), and play with the drive knob. It's really like a clean boost at mid to lower frequencies with clipping above that. Every tubescreamer type pedal I have played through does this. It's why a tubescreamer should be used with an amp that is set to at least at the edge of breakup, so that the clean boost component is pushing the amp into clipping. And it's one reason why some people don't like tubescreamers, trying to use it like a distortion pedal where the entire spectrum of the signal is heavily clipped. Through a clean amp, a tubescreamer sounds hard and honky with distortion up top.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  5. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Pete Thorn demonstrating a tubescreamer with a clean amp and dirty amp and explaining the clean boost / clipping thing of a tubescreamer. Jump to 2:11.

     
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  6. junk notes

    junk notes Well-Known Member

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    Pete!

    The low input on an 80s 2203/2204 works great for that! Ibanez TS-9 (TS808) should be great with an SC20, right! A Boss overdrive would be a good backup.
    To think how may records Marshall JCM800's and tubescreamers were on, one way or the other.
     
  7. Raimo

    Raimo Member

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    yepp, bring up the 400, 800 and 1,6. AN EQ like that is not exactly what is shows. Go by ear.
     
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  8. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    WellBurnTheSky is correct on this. There is no "mix" functionality built into a traditional "Tubescreamer". It's a series device, with 100% of the signal passing through the clipping circuit (OP Amp). Regardless of what Pete Thorn "hears", that's how the TS works, it's either bypassed (except for buffering), or 100% of the signal is being affected. Schematics don't lie...

    https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/tube-screamer/tube-screamer-block-diagram.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  9. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    If you don't hear the clean component of the signal, I don't know what to say. I heard it the first time I plugged into a tubescreamer with a clean amp. My reaction was, sounds weird. I didn't know how a tubescreamer was designed to be used at that point. I thought it was a type of distortion pedal, just the same as every other n00b. And I thought it was a bad distortion pedal. Where's the gain? Ha ha.

    On the schematic, the opamp itself is not clipping the signal. It's amplifying the signal. The diodes are doing the clipping in a feedback loop that has a high pass filter so that higher frequencies get more clipping from the diodes than lower frequencies. And that clipped signal gets mixed back in at the output of the opamp with a clean signal. Read through more of that article and it should become clearer what is happening. But too, just look at the output of the opamp and you can see the amplified signal passing to the output and being tapped to feedback through the clipping diodes. That site is pretty great by the way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  10. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    What someone "hears" does not define what's happening in the circuit. Having the frequencies manipulated through filtering (High pass/Low pass) is not the same as mixing a clean and clipped signal. In the case of the TS, there is still no mixing of the two, just more clipping emphasis on certain frequencies. Yes, it is a cool site.
     
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  11. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    This is how a Tubescreamer is suppose to be used imo, with an amp on the edge, or into breakup on it's own, then push it with the tubescreamer. Either as a clean boost or with added drive.

    Tubescreamers have been around for 40 years now, I've had my Maxon OD9 since the first year they came out in 2002. So I'm fairly knowledgeable on how I like to use a tubescreamer, and I'm completely onboard with how Pete Thorn likes to use the pedal.

    Including his recommendation about keeping the tone control just below dead straight up, (half way up). It makes the pedal warmer, as he describes, imo.
     
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  12. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Are we both reading the same analysis from that site? You posted it, and I am agreeing with what is said there.

    How about this: Explain how you think a tubescreamer works in the clipping section of the circuit. You said before that the clipping is happening in the opamp. That would be a good place to start.

    My take on it is that the 500K pot in the feedback loop sends more or less signal to the diode clipping section outside of the opamp. Turn it one way and more clipping happens (distorted). Turn it the other way and less clipping happens (clean). And in that diode clipping section is a high pass at 720 hz so that the lower frequencies are much less clipped than frequencies above the high pass.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  13. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I agree. Playing a tubescreamer through a clean amp just sounds not right, because some of the signal is coming through clean, just as Pete mentioned in the video, where it sounds like two layers where one layer is being clipped and the other layer is staying clean. And it sounds that way because that is actually what is happening inside the pedal. Get just a bit of clipping going on at the amp, and that clean layer isn't there and doesn't sound strange anymore. Push the level on the tubescreamer and the amp's frontend gets boosted into more clipping, along with that clipped layer that is happening inside the pedal.
     
  14. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    I never said the clipping was "occurring" in the OP amp. What I said was that 100% of the signal passes through the "clipping circuit". The 1st stage of that circuit is the OP amp (no clipping yet). Suffice it to say, we disagree on your "mixing" of clean/clipped signals theory. Done here...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  15. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I took that as you thinking that the clipping was happening inside the opamp. Maybe you can see why. Not trying to be argumentative here, and it may be that we are just disagreeing on semantics.

    I didn't see a Spark Booster schematic, but I did find a schematic based on it, which uses diodes. https://madbeanpedals.com/EP/schematics/Arsonist.gif In that one, the switch is actually used for different filters (which might be the case in the actual Spark Booster too), and whether diode clipping happens is according to the gain knob position, similar to the tubescreamer circuit and other overdrives but using different opamps and arrangement. Most of these pedals are just some buffering, filtering, amplifying a signal into some diodes for clipping, more filtering, buffering, in little different arrangements. The last tubescreamer (clone) I bought (years ago) was $20 new price, through-hole constructed, and just has a little different tone knob behavior than a TS9. I'm amazed at the prices some of these pedals are fetching. It's no wonder everyone is making little different tubescreamer clones. Lol.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  16. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree on the TS. As for the SoloDallas pedal, guess it's a personal taste thing. Some like it (Angus Young apparently does), but I'm not a fan of a device emulating a wireless unit in front of my amp(s).
     
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  17. Raimo

    Raimo Member

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    it works like a boost. In the 70’s they got a big signal lost and compinsated that by boostingit up. His wireless has a volume knob you could bring up and that drove the amp. Bssically a clean boost.
     
  18. Kim Lucky Day

    Kim Lucky Day Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Correct.
     
  19. Kim Lucky Day

    Kim Lucky Day Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    It is supposed to add a touch of compression to the signal when engaged. The Storm is nest in that it also features a limiter knob, which probably is most useful when run into the front of an amp. I just know it adds just a little extra sizzle when I use as a boost in the loop. when compared to an LPB-1. But you're 100% correct, it is all personal taste.
     
  20. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Well, it just goes back to something I frequently say on this forum. Good tone is subjective, people hear things differently.
     
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