speaker replacement on a Marshall DSL20CR

iulikg

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Hello guys! I would like to buy a Marshall DSL20CR which comes with a 12" Celestion Seventy-80 speakers (20W). Giving the fact that Celestion Seventy has a moderate sound quality (as per other comments), I'm willing to replace it from the start with a Celestion G12M-25 Greenback 16 Ohm. Can anyone confirm this swap can be made without adding any additional pressure on the tubes/amps? I am not into advanced physics and I'm actually worried whether standard 20W can be upgraded to 25W in the Greenback without damaging the amp itself. Also, as this Marshall has a power output button, I assume in case of a Greenback installed it would cut the output by 50%, lowering it to 12.5W, right?
Thank you very much for your help.
 

fitz288

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Hello guys! I would like to buy a Marshall DSL20CR which comes with a 12" Celestion Seventy-80 speakers (20W). Giving the fact that Celestion Seventy has a moderate sound quality (as per other comments), I'm willing to replace it from the start with a Celestion G12M-25 Greenback 16 Ohm. Can anyone confirm this swap can be made without adding any additional pressure on the tubes/amps? I am not into advanced physics and I'm actually worried whether standard 20W can be upgraded to 25W in the Greenback without damaging the amp itself. Also, as this Marshall has a power output button, I assume in case of a Greenback installed it would cut the output by 50%, lowering it to 12.5W, right?
Thank you very much for your help.
Ok, first off, the 70-80 is 80 watts power handling, and yes, not a favorite speaker according to most people.
Putting in a 25w greenback is not going to affect the 20w amp, although the amp at full power may affect the speaker.
But Marshall also ships the 20w SJ Studio with the 25w greenback (i think) so...
Also, the half power setting on the amp reduces the amp output to 10w (also debated here by actual output measurements to be far less then 10w)
In any event, you should be fine with the GB in the DSL20.
 

scozz

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Hello guys! I would like to buy a Marshall DSL20CR which comes with a 12" Celestion Seventy-80 speakers (20W). Giving the fact that Celestion Seventy has a moderate sound quality (as per other comments), I'm willing to replace it from the start with a Celestion G12M-25 Greenback 16 Ohm. Can anyone confirm this swap can be made without adding any additional pressure on the tubes/amps? I am not into advanced physics and I'm actually worried whether standard 20W can be upgraded to 25W in the Greenback without damaging the amp itself. Also, as this Marshall has a power output button, I assume in case of a Greenback installed it would cut the output by 50%, lowering it to 12.5W, right?
Thank you very much for your help.
Should not be an issue, unless your going to be dimming it all the time. Marshall does use a Greenback 25 in their 20 watt Studio Jubilee, soooo.

But that speaker would not be my first choice, I much prefer a Creamback 65. I put one in a 1-12 cab to use with my SC20h, sounds great!

Better balanced between highs, mids, and lows imo, and a bit more headroom too. The Creamback 65 is a great speaker used as a single amp speaker.

If using a 4-12 cab, Greenbacks might be a better choice. Just my :2c:
 

steveb63

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Been using my DSL 20CR with a single Greenback.
With no issues.

Volume hasn't been below 7 on either master since I got it. No ill effects.

Of course YMMV, IMHO Etc...
 

iulikg

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Thank you, guys! Much appreciated. I ordered the dsl20 and the greenback, should arrive on Wednesday. To be honest, this choice was made based on reviews I read on internet, haven't really got the chance to test this amp but I am sure Marshall will not dissapoint. Moreover, I'm currently using a cheap Fender Mustang combo and moving to an amp with tubes should be a huge difference. Still thinking whether greenback is the best replacement choice, as scozz mentioned above, creamback might be a better one for my case (I'm not using cabinets), but as this will be my first Marshall amp, I'll take it slow and see how it goes :) thank you all for your help!
 

Gene Ballzz

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Should not be an issue, unless your going to be dimming it all the time. Marshall does use a Greenback 25 in their 20 watt Studio Jubilee, soooo.

But that speaker would not be my first choice, I much prefer a Creamback 65. I put one in a 1-12 cab to use with my SC20h, sounds great!

Better balanced between highs, mids, and lows imo, and a bit more headroom too. The Creamback 65 is a great speaker used as a single amp speaker.

If using a 4-12 cab, Greenbacks might be a better choice. Just my :2c:

@iulikg ,
In my DSL20CR, I ran both a vintage, pre Rola greenback as well as a current production unit. Both were avast improvement over the Seventy/80, but as mentioned by @scozz , a Creamback 65 really did the trick for me!
Enjoy Your New Amp!
Gene
 

PelliX

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Congrats on the amp (and speaker)!

The Greenback will be fine, they're rated quite conservatively. The amp will probably kick something comparable to 30-35W RMS if pushed to the limit, but that shouldn't be a problem for the Greenback. Personally, I tried both Green- and Creamback and liked the Creamback a fair deal more - though most of everything is an upgrade from the stock Seventy/80!

If you have the option of trying a Creamback, I would recommend it, as did Gene and Scozz. Also note that these combos are VERY sensitive to placement and angle. Get it off the floor or at least tilted back a little would be my first recommendations if you wish to start experimenting. :yesway:
 
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iulikg

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@iulikg ,
In my DSL20CR, I ran both a vintage, pre Rola greenback as well as a current production unit. Both were avast improvement over the Seventy/80, but as mentioned by @scozz , a Creamback 65 really did the trick for me!
Enjoy Your New Amp!
Gene
Thanks, Gene! Can't wait for it to be delivered, have been waiting for a Marshall amp for a long time. I checked Creamback 65, it seems they have it only with 65W which might be a bit too loud. I will use it as a practice amp as well and I'm afraid my neighbors will have to visit me more often 🎸 they also have a 45W version but that might be a bit too loud as well. I'll have it a try with the Greenback and see how it goes. Some people say the 4 x 12" combination might give the best results but I hope it can do the same magic in a single set-up
 

iulikg

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Congrats on the amp (and speaker)!

The Greenback will be fine, they're rated quite conservatively. The amp will probably kick something comparable to 30-35W RMS if pushed to the limit, but that shouldn't be a problem for the Greenback. Personally, I tried both Green- and Creamback and liked the Creamback a fair deal more - though most of everything is an upgrade from the stock Seventy/80!

If you have the option of trying a Creamback, I would recommend it, as did Gene and Scozz. Also note that these combos are VERY sensitive to placement and angle. Get it off the floor or at least tilted back a little would be my first recommendations if you wish to start experimenting. :yesway:
Thanks PelliX, much appreciated! I have checked the creamback but the 65W version is way too loud for me. I haven't mentioned it will be used at home as well. Would you recommend a 45W or the 65 version is the one and only?
 

PelliX

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Thanks PelliX, much appreciated! I have checked the creamback but the 65W version is way too loud for me.

Eh, that's not quite how it works. :) Your amp can deliver a given Wattage (20 on the label, effectively more like 30 because it's a high gain amp...). The speaker(s) you connect have a power handling rating (25W for a Greenback, 65W for a Creamback, etc). You should always ensure your speakers exceed what the amp can produce. When a speaker is labeled '70W', it means 'do not feed it more than 70W'.

Now, to confuse you a little more, speakers do in fact react differently, so one may be louder than another, but those are (between the selection outlined here) relatively small differences. The power rating plays no role in this though.

Long story short, I can tell you from practical experience that the Greenback and Creamback will produce equal volume in that amp. The difference is the sound and the fact that you could push the Greenback closer to its limits, thus introducing speaker breakup. If this means nothing to you, ignore it for now.

I haven't mentioned it will be used at home as well. Would you recommend a 45W or the 65 version is the one and only?

THe 65W Creamback is what I was suggesting, yup! :thumb:

Some people say the 4 x 12" combination might give the best results but I hope it can do the same magic in a single set-up

Well, that magic 'starts' at 2x12 - multiple speakers will simply sound differently. Another important aspect is that pretty much all 4x12's are closed back. So are many 2x12's. I often ran my DSL20 with a 1x12" cab along side it - mix of open and closed. But, in essence "if it doesn't sound good through one speaker, adding more won't fix it" - this should be fine to get started! :headbanger:
 
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Gene Ballzz

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@iulikg
As alluded to, the wattage rating of a speaker is not a measurement of its loudness, but instead a measurement of how much power/wattage it can tolerate. The measurement of loudness is "sensitivity." In this comparison, the Creamback 65 is actually reted at 97db, which is 1db less than the Greenback G12M-25. Very small difference, but still significant for comparison. These "sensitivity" ratings are usually measured with 1 watt input at a specific frequency (typically 1kHz) and at a specific distance from the speaker, usually 1 meter. All in all, the Creamback will NOT be louder than the Greenback, but will likely sound a bit better!

Here's a link to Celestion's 12" guitar speaker page. You can click on each model and view even more detailed specs than on the overal overview page. Knowing what the specs mean makes it easier to understand.

I like to download to my desktop or open multiple frequency response charts above and below each other, for detailed visual sonic comparison.
GREENBACK 25
T1221-G12M-Greenback-copy.jpg
CREAMBACK 65
T5864-G12M-65-creamback-copy.jpg

SEVENTY-80
T5605-Seventy-80-copy.jpg

Notice the dramatic differences in response, starting at around 800Hz all the way up to 20kHz, especially in the all important 1kHz to 5kHz range. These charts show clearly why the Seventy-80 sounds harsh and ratty.

Hope This Is Helpin'?
Gene
 

scozz

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@iulikg
As alluded to, the wattage rating of a speaker is not a measurement of its loudness, but instead a measurement of how much power/wattage it can tolerate. The measurement of loudness is "sensitivity." In this comparison, the Creamback 65 is actually reted at 97db, which is 1db less than the Greenback G12M-25. Very small difference, but still significant for comparison. These "sensitivity" ratings are usually measured with 1 watt input at a specific frequency (typically 1kHz) and at a specific distance from the speaker, usually 1 meter. All in all, the Creamback will NOT be louder than the Greenback, but will likely sound a bit better!

Here's a link to Celestion's 12" guitar speaker page. You can click on each model and view even more detailed specs than on the overal overview page. Knowing what the specs mean makes it easier to understand.

I like to download to my desktop or open multiple frequency response charts above and below each other, for detailed visual sonic comparison.
GREENBACK 25
View attachment 112264
CREAMBACK 65
View attachment 112265

SEVENTY-80
View attachment 112266

Notice the dramatic differences in response, starting at around 800Hz all the way up to 20kHz, especially in the all important 1kHz to 5kHz range. These charts show clearly why the Seventy-80 sounds harsh and ratty.

Hope This Is Helpin'?
Gene
Thanks Gene, I was just about to tell the op about his misperception of loudness relating to speakers. Also, the Creambacks’ sensitivity rating compared to the Greenbacks’.

Haha, for once I read through the posts before commenting!

Did you receive that information @iulikg?
 

iulikg

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oh gentlemen! this is so amazing :) I guess it's about time for me to start learning more about sound, frequencies and how everything works. It will be my homework for today, have to study carefully what's this all about. But I think I start regretting I haven't bought a Creamback from the start.
I foresee I'll have some questions for your guys so please stay around and bear with me, I'm one of the rookies who's willing to learn.
 

iulikg

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Well, start with the basics. How does an amp work. :cool:

View attachment 112299

lol :)) and I assume these books are only for power knob and how does it trigger a full set of processes inside the amp :)

On the other hand, I tried to order the Creamback just to have it shipped asap but unfortunately it's not in stock anymore, should be available in a few days :( so I'll have to wait a bit more.
 

paul-e-mann

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lol :)) and I assume these books are only for power knob and how does it trigger a full set of processes inside the amp :)

On the other hand, I tried to order the Creamback just to have it shipped asap but unfortunately it's not in stock anymore, should be available in a few days :( so I'll have to wait a bit more.
Good idea, buy them both and see which you like better and send the one you dont like back! I like them both, but greenback sounds best in a multiple speaker configuration not in a 1x12, creamback65 on the other hand sounds good in any configuration.
 

scozz

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lol :)) and I assume these books are only for power knob and how does it trigger a full set of processes inside the amp :)

On the other hand, I tried to order the Creamback just to have it shipped asap but unfortunately it's not in stock anymore, should be available in a few days :( so I'll have to wait a bit more.
Oh, so you cancelled the Greenback and ordered the Creamback, or am I misunderstanding?

I thought you already ordered a Greenback,…
 

iulikg

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Oh, so you cancelled the Greenback and ordered the Creamback, or am I misunderstanding?

I thought you already ordered a Greenback,…
Not really, scozz. I did order the Greenback a few days ago and today I wanted to order the Creamback as well but it's not in stock anymore :( I'm buying everything from Thomann as they have a great service here in Europe. I got in touch with them earlier today to see if they can reroute the Greenback back to them and ship the Creamback instead but it's still work in progress with UPS. Most probably they will have it delivered on Wednesday (GB). I just want to sort out everything asap, can't wait to test the new set-up. I assume replacing a speaker is not rocket science and can be done at home, right?
 
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