Shouldn't have plugged into it...Friedman Runt

ricksdisconnected

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The idea that Friedman is 'better' or that the Friedman tones can't be achieved with Marshall and pedals has me questioning things.
one thing is for sure and i'll leave it at this, Marshall to many peoples ears needs all the help it can get
trying to catch a Friedman. but stop questioning and just go try them out.

i'll leave this thread be as nobody is ever gonna convince you of something you dont want to try for
yourself. ive made many good points and you cant sway a person on something that they dont want to
try to see for themselves. the old head in the sand thing? stick with the same ole same ole boring tones
when there is something new to try i guess. unless they do something radical Marshall is a slowly sinking ship.
like i stated above,
what i find terribly funny is when i hear people talk about other amps in general and they say
"its just a hotrodded marshall" or it sounds like a hotrodded marshal. roflmao.
what im really hearing them say is "here was yet another opportunity for marshall to have done something
extra but they dropped the freakin ball again and somebody picked it up and ran with it into the endzone".
 

Crikey

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And perhaps when that day comes you can jump on this board and let us know how things are. Cause you have no clue right now. Understanding electricity does not mean you know how a tube amp that you have zero experience with responds under your fingers at volume.
Nailed it.
You got to plug into the Friedman to experience just what Tallcoolone said
Ive owned and played a lot of amps.
Plugging straight in and turning the volume up, i noticed no soft spots or lag
Until you try one you cant dismiss it
 

Ufoscorpion

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I am interested in what makes a Friedman better than a Marshall with some pedals. That's all. I keep hearing stories, but when it comes down to it, I just hear... a Marshall augmented with pedals. I didn't think saying that would be controversial, given that Friedman is even advertising their amps as Marshall tones. The idea that Friedman is 'better' or that the Friedman tones can't be achieved with Marshall and pedals has me questioning things.



Yeah, I am in the "red channel is unusable" camp. I don't think I am alone in that view. Just too much gain. I have played some stuff on it, but I think the boosted blue is nearly always the better option. Maybe 8-string Drop A might be more for what the red channel can be used for. I have played some Slipknot and some Djent on it before, and basically, it all sounds like the same thing at that low custom tuning. My example was Godsmack in Drop C on the red channel. That is how it sounds, even with the gain that low. Just too much gain.

Ah good. Some LZ. Like me some LZ. I am enjoying your video. I didn't expect a mix. I thought maybe you would have an isolated track. I see you are using the wah plenty. Which one do you have there?

I play Led Zepplin myself. Have their vinyls. Songs on my list are Babe IGLY, Communication B, How many..., You shook me, your time, Achilles Last Stand (my favorite), Bring it home, Dazed and Confused, Good Times..., Heartbreaker, Immigrant, Living lovin', No Q, Ramble, Thank you, Lemon, remains the same, What is and Whole lotta love.

However, more to the point. Do you think that is something a Marshall can't do? That only a Friedman Twin Sister can achieve those same results? Which is really at the heart of this conversation.

BTW, want to know what combination of amp and pedal I found that sounded great for LZ?

I expected the Plexi or a Supro.

They weren't. Orange Tiny Terror and a TS9 sound much closer to Page.

Then I remembered that Page himself is playing an Orange.

That his signature amp happens to be an Orange.

So my question would be, why did you pick a Friedman amp instead of an Orange for Page's tone?


Or just want to use your tone to cover the song your way?
Just go try some Friedman’s , you’re obviously not going to ‘ get it ‘ until you do . Even then it sounds like you’re the type that’s going to argue black is white .
 

Maxbrothman

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one thing is for sure and i'll leave it at this, Marshall to many peoples ears needs all the help it can get
trying to catch a Friedman. but stop questioning and just go try them out.

i'll leave this thread be as nobody is ever gonna convince you of something you dont want to try for
yourself. ive made many good points and you cant sway a person on something that they dont want to
try to see for themselves. the old head in the sand thing? stick with the same ole same ole boring tones
when there is something new to try i guess. unless they do something radical Marshall is a slowly sinking ship.
like i stated above,
what i find terribly funny is when i hear people talk about other amps in general and they say
"its just a hotrodded marshall" or it sounds like a hotrodded marshal. roflmao.
what im really hearing them say is "here was yet another opportunity for marshall to have done something
extra but they dropped the freakin ball again and somebody picked it up and ran with it into the endzone".

I can guarantee you that the way I am talking about Friedman right now is the same as every single person who plays electric guitar in real life that I have talked with. Like every one of them. I get to talk with a handful of people about Friedman online, and you guys are those people.

They will also ask you the same questions I am and will give you the same answers I am giving you.

The ease of trying a boutique isn't like that in Europe. Maybe wherever you are, Friedman amps are falling off the shelves they are so stuffed with them, but in Europe, they are simply not so readily available like that.

You are talking about a flight to a major city like London, Paris, Rome, or Berlin to try one of these out in a store.

I could order one and then return it to the shop after. That's an outlay of €2000 - €3000, and if I return it there will probably be some clause I have to pay a %.

Here is what everyone, literally everyone I speak to, is going to say when I start talking money like that for an amp.

"Dude, you can get Diezel VH4 for that price".

They are right. You can have a top-shelf Diezel amp with 4 channels of top-quality tones that are tried, true, tested, bonafide workhorses. You can even hear the results in videos and audio. Adam Jones is virtually selling the VH4 to people just by playing in Tool with one. Look closely at this. A Diezel VH4 is 4 channels. It costs €1890. That is €472 a channel. Which is a deal. You get a clean channel, Fender-ish channel, JCM-ish channel, and then the Diezel high gain channel. You splosh down the big money in one go, and you have an amp that can almost do it all. So in a way, you get where your money is going there.

With Friedman, it just isn't even remotely like that. You are paying top-tier money for a tone that is supposed to be the "Marshall of your dreams". The thing is, I can go watch and listen to videos of the Studio series, and when I get the Studio series, it even sounds like the Studio series. Same with the Origin. It sounds just like what I heard in the demos. What people are talking about when they say the Studios are awesome is correct. They are not lacking anything. The tone, their bigger brothers, are known for is right there. If you pay for a SC20h, you will have a JCM800 tone. If you pay out for an SV20h, you'll be the owner of a Plexi. If you get a 2525, it is indeed a jubilee. I just don't get how Marshall can be lacking if Marshall is behind so much of the music we hear from the 60s through several decades. How is it lacking for all those artists?

What Friedman did was make Marshall tones accessible in smaller environments. You didn't have to play them at deafening levels to get a good tone. This was before affordable attenuators that didn't suck tone came along. That has all changed since. Marshall caught up, and attenuators are better.

When it comes to the crunch, basically what I am hearing here is that if I put down €2000 - €3000, I will receive a tone worth that amount.

The amp should turn the following into simply the best Marshall sounds I can ever hear (under my playing conditions).



I am not against Friedman. I recommend the BE-OD pedal with the Origin all the time. I even pointed out that the BE 100 exploding video is a hoax. I think Friedman amps do sound like a Marshall.

I am not buying the idea that they are better than a Marshall or that they can do things a Marshall with pedals can't. For some reason, out of all the amps in existence, it is just that Friedman claim which doesn't have video evidence to support it. Nearly every other amp out there, from Marshall to EVH to Fender to Diezel to Peavey to Vox to Mesa Boogie, can demonstrate what they can do that is unique to that system. Even Tone King copying Tweeds and Blackface can do it. Mesa Atlantic showing Vox tones can do it. I have zero problems following any of that. Yet when it comes to Friedman, I hear Marshall with pedals. I don't hear Marshall in some Holy Grail tone that we can't get anymore with a Marshall. That's all. Apparently, that is controversial for some people. Like saying pedal circuits share similarities with amp mods and components. Honestly, I think neither is controversial. That the subjective factor is a real element to tone and guitar gear. Better is often in the eye of the beholder, or in this case, the ears of the beholder.
 
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Springfield Scooter

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Yep Runts are pcb , really good quality well put together pcb’s ( just like an 800 or similar made in England Marshall ) which is why they’re half the price of the handwired amps . Your point is ?
For much less money, just get a Egnater.
Built in the exact same "factory" , as the Friedman.
Made in the USA, with imported pcb components!
Egnater rocks .
 

Maxbrothman

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Not sure where "amazing" or "magical" came from but sure! This is the Twin Sister.

You claimed the EVH red channel was unusable--your words not mine brutha. Your tone is fine.


Okay, so I have had time to go through this properly. I think what you are doing is fantastic. I think you have put a lot of work and effort into your LZ tribute band, and it does sound awesome, including your playing. I was looking at your other videos and noticed that you have used Marshall gear and other stuff from time to time over the past decade doing LZ. You are the first person to show me that they have bonded with a Friedman in a way that has worked out for them. That is great.

So finally, it was interesting to talk to someone who can show me where €3000 went for them.

The thing is, though, that this idea Marshall is underwhelming is just something I do not buy into. The reason is basically because of the hundreds if not thousands of videos of people doing what you are doing, with a Marshall, not to mention countless gigs with Marshalls being used on stage. It seems that it isn't missing anything and is how people use the gear. Or are they ALL wrong? I don't think it makes any sense to claim they are.

Good luck with your LZ tribute band. I'd pay for a ticket to see you and feel it worth it.
 

axe arsenal

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So, a Friedman is like a Marshall with a pedal(s) built inside... And nothing justifies the high price?
What about the Marshall YJM?
 

ricksdisconnected

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For much less money, just get a Egnater.
Built in the exact same "factory" , as the Friedman.
Made in the USA, with imported pcb components!
Egnater rocks .
i love it when you guys that dont understand use that "same factory" line.
:rofl: until it hurts.
 

EJstrat&JVM

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Yeah. Watch comparison videos of people who own both Marshall and Friedman products.


I watch a lot youtube demos, but how can you take this clip seriously?? Bad recording, a crappy 1x12, and a guitarist that can't play a simple pentatonic to save his life. That said, even considering all this, the Marshall DSL sounded really bad in comparison to the Friedman. I never liked DSL, a better comparison would be Marshall 800 or Marshall Vintage Modern or Marshall AFD100 vs Friedman.
 

Ufoscorpion

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Dave really has a place in your head, eh? You can’t stop thinking about the guy
Springfield genuinely believes that Dave Friedman tried to ruin Marshall by mistakenly saying that Marshall didn’t build amps in England anymore . I honestly believe that it’s what he genuinely believed to be true at the time an not a deliberate attempt to destroy Marshall . I don’t think Dave Friedman has any beef with Marshall , let’s face it Friedman amps would not exsist without Marshall amps . I do also get the impression that Dave really isnt interested in any Marshall amps designed after 1981 tbh , basically anything they’ve come up with in the last 40 years .
 

Maxbrothman

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I paid approx €800 for my SV20h.

Since the example of a Friedman in action was the Twin Sister playing Jimmy Page Led Zeppelin, I decided to sit down and see if my SV20h passes or fails that test.

Remember, I am just sitting down noodling with Page tones and riffs. Not an expert. This was a few hours of me playing around dialing in Page. The last example was just €100 worth of modeling software to see if I still had the chops for some.

Can an SV20h do Page?

I think the answer is yes, it can.



So aside from Led Zeppelin, what else are you all doing with your Friedman amps? I'd like to hear more.
 

Ufoscorpion

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I paid approx €800 for my SV20h.

Since the example of a Friedman in action was the Twin Sister playing Jimmy Page Led Zeppelin, I decided to sit down and see if my SV20h passes or fails that test.

Remember, I am just sitting down noodling with Page tones and riffs. Not an expert. This was a few hours of me playing around dialing in Page. The last example was just €100 worth of modeling software to see if I still had the chops for some.

Can an SV20h do Page?

I think the answer is yes, it can.



So aside from Led Zeppelin, what else are you all doing with your Friedman amps? I'd like to hear more.

We all got Marshall’s we all dig Marshall’s that’s why we’re on this forum . But there are alternatives , really good alternatives. If someone is adamant that Marshall amps are the be all and end all fair enough but I really don’t see why those of us with pricier alternatives should need to justify it . If you don’t want to spend out on gear or can’t afford to , fair enough I certainly wouldn’t frown on those that do , more power to your elbow I say . If you go the wedge to buy all the ‘ boutique’ amps going good on ya . Where I live ( just north of old London Town ) a 10 year old golf tdi is gonna get you to work just as fast as say a Porsche gt3 , but I know which one I’d rather have if I had the dough .
 

Maxbrothman

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We all got Marshall’s we all dig Marshall’s that’s why we’re on this forum . But there are alternatives , really good alternatives. If someone is adamant that Marshall amps are the be all and end all fair enough but I really don’t see why those of us with pricier alternatives should need to justify it . If you don’t want to spend out on gear or can’t afford to , fair enough I certainly wouldn’t frown on those that do , more power to your elbow I say . If you go the wedge to buy all the ‘ boutique’ amps going good on ya . Where I live ( just north of old London Town ) a 10 year old golf tdi is gonna get you to work just as fast as say a Porsche gt3 , but I know which one I’d rather have if I had the dough .
The OP asked, "Tell me why I should not get this amp?"

If it were just a Friedman party thread, I wouldn't have said anything, but since they asked, I decided to give them some things to think over.

Can they get the same thing using pedals with their SC20h?

Can they dial it in with what they already have?

Someone then asked what tips are around, and I provided them with the DSL20 vs JJ video.

Many bad DSL experiences come from people dialing them ineffectively. That goes for any amp, including the SC20h.

I then mentioned how amps could have circuits belonging to pedals on the inside, such as overdrives or boosts. I pointed to the Friedman BE-OD itself being a transistor pedal version of the pre-amp section of that amp.

That became very controversial for some people. I don't think that is controversial. I think that is just common knowledge with amp and pedal circuits. They share lots of similarities.

What I think is most controversial is the position some people take up that Friedman is 'more Marshall than Marshall.' At that point, I think they are stretching things so far they will pull a muscle.

I have been honest with you. When you asked if I have played one, I told you no. However, I have heard them, and concert venues have given me an insight into what I am hearing, which is a Marshall. I don't think that will be controversial because that is what Friedman is. A Marshall-sounding amp. "More Marshall than Marshall" or "Marshall is lacking" claims is something others will have to justify. I am not making those claims. I don't think they are justifiable. I have read hundreds of pages on that topic, and you should know as well as I do that it never gets resolved because it is very subjective.

I don't think the SV20h is lacking. So I did a few Page tones above and think you can dial it in just as much as you dial it in with a Friedman.

I am all for hearing people play their Friedman though and listening, and as you can see from my replies, I will not try and diminish it. I just want to hear, that is all. :)
 

Ufoscorpion

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The OP asked, "Tell me why I should not get this amp?"

If it were just a Friedman party thread, I wouldn't have said anything, but since they asked, I decided to give them some things to think over.

Can they get the same thing using pedals with their SC20h?

Can they dial it in with what they already have?

Someone then asked what tips are around, and I provided them with the DSL20 vs JJ video.

Many bad DSL experiences come from people dialing them ineffectively. That goes for any amp, including the SC20h.

I then mentioned how amps could have circuits belonging to pedals on the inside, such as overdrives or boosts. I pointed to the Friedman BE-OD itself being a transistor pedal version of the pre-amp section of that amp.

That became very controversial for some people. I don't think that is controversial. I think that is just common knowledge with amp and pedal circuits. They share lots of similarities.

What I think is most controversial is the position some people take up that Friedman is 'more Marshall than Marshall.' At that point, I think they are stretching things so far they will pull a muscle.

I have been honest with you. When you asked if I have played one, I told you no. However, I have heard them, and concert venues have given me an insight into what I am hearing, which is a Marshall. I don't think that will be controversial because that is what Friedman is. A Marshall-sounding amp. "More Marshall than Marshall" or "Marshall is lacking" claims is something others will have to justify. I am not making those claims. I don't think they are justifiable. I have read hundreds of pages on that topic, and you should know as well as I do that it never gets resolved because it is very subjective.

I don't think the SV20h is lacking. So I did a few Page tones above and think you can dial it in just as much as you dial it in with a Friedman.

I am all for hearing people play their Friedman though and listening, and as you can see from my replies, I will not try and diminish it. I just want to hear, that is all. :)
The two vids of the new SS Friedman say it all bro , consider the mic well and truly dropped , lol
 


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