Should’ve went with what I knew to be true!

Dogs of Doom

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Here is an illustration that should explain a lot. The DJ's don't get told to turn down..

5qjh7j.jpg
but, also, the DJ, at a rave party...

We have local rave parties, & I can hear/feel the kickdrum samples 4 miles away, at my house...

I can guarantee you, that, they are not under 105 db...

That little twerp emo band was probably struggling to get 85 db w/ their Fender champ 10 amp's... :)...

:wave:
 

bobpick68

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That’s right...DJ’s don’t get told to turn down. That’s because they’re offering something the people want. Maybe ya need to work on what you’re offering.

Oh we have no problem with that. We understand we are entertainers first and foremost. Something I agree with you most bands lack.

To expound on that I think a lot of musicians look at things from a musicians perspective only. Whether it's song selection or what they should/shouldn't do on stage, a lot of musicians do not try to see things from the eyes and ears of their chosen demographic.

Getting the songs tight is maybe half the battle of an entertaining band. I learned that many years ago. The common bargoer doesn't care that you just nailed YYZ especially if you stood there like a statue and acted like there were no people in front of you while doing it. OTOH (yes I am going there) play Mustang Sally with energy to a group of 50 somethings and watch the dance floor fill up quick.

Crowd interaction, some choreography, proper lights and the actual flow of the song list are all way more important than how technical of a musician someone is.
 
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Dogs of Doom

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The

previous bands ran people off with their lack of entertainment value...regardless of volume. That’s almost always the case!
A tight, well rehearsed, powerful sounding, ( notice I didn’t say necessarily loud)-gotta have big shit to sound powerful-and visually exciting band won’t run people off.
And 90db is just...well...
I think that anyone w/ an ear, that knows sound, realizes that, certain frequencies can be shrill & annoy the senses.

I can mix a band at 120db, that can be enjoyable, because the frequencies are balanced & not harsh.

I can mix a band at 90 db, w/ all the wrong frequencies & run everybody out the door...

I've mixed many a guitar player, that seemed to hone in on those harsh shrill frequencies & refuse to turn down, or tame their frequency, & many x's, I was left to leave them out of the mix, because their sound was already so boisterous, in the mix. Usually, I'd try to balance out their sound by adding midrange support, but, when they have scoop so bad, there's not much to work w/...

Ironically, usually a Mesa player...

But, shrill is shrill.

I have been to shows, where the sound guy did turn things up way too loud, where the guy singing, or guitar hits a note, & you feel like your equilibrium is thrown out of whack.

Not a fun feeling. As an audience member, it pays to bring earplugs for those occasions. I usually bring earplugs for the warmup bands anyway, so my ears are fresh for the bands, that I'm there to see...
 

Matthews Guitars

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Usually when the guitarist's tone is TOO MUCH of a high frequency, I just assume he's blown out his hearing response in that frequency range and is attempting to compensate. And as often as not, doesn't realize that he's got significant hearing damage, which is indirectly resulting in his rig causing similar hearing damage to the audience.

Definition of "difficult": Getting a guitar player to get his hearing checked.
 

bobpick68

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I think that anyone w/ an ear, that knows sound, realizes that, certain frequencies can be shrill & annoy the senses.

I can mix a band at 120db, that can be enjoyable, because the frequencies are balanced & not harsh.

I can mix a band at 90 db, w/ all the wrong frequencies & run everybody out the door...

I've mixed many a guitar player, that seemed to hone in on those harsh shrill frequencies & refuse to turn down, or tame their frequency, & many x's, I was left to leave them out of the mix, because their sound was already so boisterous, in the mix. Usually, I'd try to balance out their sound by adding midrange support, but, when they have scoop so bad, there's not much to work w/...

Ironically, usually a Mesa player...

But, shrill is shrill.

I have been to shows, where the sound guy did turn things up way too loud, where the guy singing, or guitar hits a note, & you feel like your equilibrium is thrown out of whack.

Not a fun feeling. As an audience member, it pays to bring earplugs for those occasions. I usually bring earplugs for the warmup bands anyway, so my ears are fresh for the bands, that I'm there to see...

Yes thats what mixing is all about and what I mean when I say "band tone". I refuse to be in a band with anyone who will not work this out as a band at rehearsals. The "my tone is my tone" people typically are the problem makers in a band mix but not always. The meshing of frequencies is of utmost importance to giving the audience a great experience. My home tone is way different than my gig tone. My gig tone sounds weak and brittle just playing alone at home compared to my home tone and home tone sounds mushy and bassy in a band mix. EQ's were invented for many reasons and one of them is getting the frequencies to mesh well with each other. Of course there will always be some bleeding but keeping that minimized makes it much easier to sound good as a band. HPF and LPF get me 90% there.
 

Matthews Guitars

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I agree that the cabinet (and speakers) are one of the most significant factors in getting a large tone.

My little Marshall MG15MSII head played through a 1960A full of Greenbacks delivers an amazingly fun fat tone.

It's a better tone than running my 2203 through the pair of 1x10 mini stack cabinets. (At lower volume so as not to blow them.)

Little amp, right cabinet, or big amp, wrong cabinet? I'd take the little amp with the right cabinet. Anybody would.
 

bobpick68

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Usually when the guitarist's tone is TOO MUCH of a high frequency, I just assume he's blown out his hearing response in that frequency range and is attempting to compensate. And as often as not, doesn't realize that he's got significant hearing damage, which is indirectly resulting in his rig causing similar hearing damage to the audience.

Definition of "difficult": Getting a guitar player to get his hearing checked.

Absolutely and I am one of them. I have learned though how to work it out. I cannot hear anything above 8k or so according to my ear Doctor. I have learned how to eyeball eq to make things sound good to everyone else even when my tone sounds like it's missing all it's top end.
 

trax1139

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but, also, the DJ, at a rave party...

We have local rave parties, & I can hear/feel the kickdrum samples 4 miles away, at my house...

I can guarantee you, that, they are not under 105 db...

That little twerp emo band was probably struggling to get 85 db w/ their Fender champ 10 amp's... :)...

:wave:
AND they are perceived as too loud BECAUSE of that little crap...no ass, just loud, fizzy, distorted crap.
That was my whole point in starting this thread. My JTM45 doesn’t have enough ass for this band and it’s style of music.
 
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Dogs of Doom

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AND they are perceived as too loud BECAUSE of that little crap...no ass, just loud, fizzy, distorted crap.
That was my whole point in starting this thread. My JTM45 doesn’t have enough ass for this band and it’s style of music.
&... some people perceive it as too loud, just by the looks, as you wheel in the ½ stack, no matter what it is & what you do w/ it.

Just wait until, like me, you load in at least 1- SVT w/ 2- 8x10s per head... :)...
 

neikeel

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Dogs comment is so true, the mere appearance of Marshall 4x12 says loud, even though my gigging cab has beam blockers on the three un-miked speakers and I use a 65 JTM45 head.

Bassist uses Ashdown 300 with 4x10 and 1x15 stack. We have keys DI'd, acoustic guitar DI'd and 2 pure vox and 3 of the others also sing. Our drummer is very good (session player and teacher) he can adjust his volume to the band and venue and from my perspective I cannot emphasise how important he is. We have a couple of his excellent students who sub in for him occasionally, one has been the Pet Shop Boys live drummer for past 3 years.
 

MarshallDog

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That must be some of the brainwashing the OP was mentioning. The show was sold out and the audience had fun. I guess you believe what you believe. I play a 50W or a 100W stack all the time, and a 50W combo for smaller venues. Either 70s JMPs or 80s JCM800s. Here is one of my larger shows a bit before the pandemic at a medium sized club (the red stack is mine):

View attachment 96129

Brain washing...I say BS to that...Its all based on the venue size, obviously. My point is that I see these retarded bands come to a small bar venue whatever you want to call it with a 100W 1/2 or full stack and its sooo loud it sounds like shit. My point is use the right amp for the dam venue, no one wants ear damage these days unless one is a complete retard. Yes and I always bring my ear plugs just in case!!!
 

tallcoolone

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Pussified lightweights annoy TF out of me...

there, I said it... :wave:

Love it but TBH at least those people go to shows. I get more annoyed with guitar players who don't get out and support other musicians. If you haven't seen live music in a month (and you aren't locked inside by an evil gov't) get out there. I know a bunch of talented hard working bands that could use all the support they can get. And they all love to talk gear!
 

Mrmadd

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100 watts.
Nothing wrong with 100 watts.
May not be enough..


Pete Townesnd had the 100 watt Marshall invented so he would
not have to hear people talking over his guitar in the clubs they played at in
the early days.

100 watts 100 watts
Where have you been?
 

solarburnDSL50

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Starting a new Rock trio, I needed to gear up. Back in the day, I used a 100w Super Lead day in and day out in all situations. Life and the music was wonderful. But, nowadays all you hear and read on this forum is...it’s too loud, it’s too big, it’s too heavy and IT’S TOO LOUD! Did I say it’s too loud? Bedroom levels (what the hell is that?) 1x10 combos, 5w Super Lead Simulators, attenuate the attenuators, mic it up through the PA...and on and on. So, with all that brainwashing, I opted for the 35w Germino JTM45. Great amp! Hooked to 2 1960av 4x12 cabs, it sounds wonderful...just not nearly enough clean headroom and plain ol horsepower to keep up with a power drummer and Fender 300w Super Bassman. So, now it’s time to order the JTM 45/100 like I should have in the first place.

Easy peasy to quiet any amp playing out especially going thru house systems.

What pisses me off and why I like big iron is the big open sound field. That's the trade off. Volume has little to do with it. However you quiet my big amps to the point of gasps? Kick some shins.
 

solarburnDSL50

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Starting a new Rock trio, I needed to gear up. Back in the day, I used a 100w Super Lead day in and day out in all situations. Life and the music was wonderful. But, nowadays all you hear and read on this forum is...it’s too loud, it’s too big, it’s too heavy and IT’S TOO LOUD! Did I say it’s too loud? Bedroom levels (what the hell is that?) 1x10 combos, 5w Super Lead Simulators, attenuate the attenuators, mic it up through the PA...and on and on. So, with all that brainwashing, I opted for the 35w Germino JTM45. Great amp! Hooked to 2 1960av 4x12 cabs, it sounds wonderful...just not nearly enough clean headroom and plain ol horsepower to keep up with a power drummer and Fender 300w Super Bassman. So, now it’s time to order the JTM 45/100 like I should have in the first place.

You will never hear me say my 20 watt Marshall is too loud and I need an attenuator.

My hundies are jus right. And if any sound man lips off? Well...thump. From the amp:D
 

trax1139

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I think that anyone w/ an ear, that knows sound, realizes that, certain frequencies can be shrill & annoy the senses.

I can mix a band at 120db, that can be enjoyable, because the frequencies are balanced & not harsh.

I can mix a band at 90 db, w/ all the wrong frequencies & run everybody out the door...

I've mixed many a guitar player, that seemed to hone in on those harsh shrill frequencies & refuse to turn down, or tame their frequency, & many x's, I was left to leave them out of the mix, because their sound was already so boisterous, in the mix. Usually, I'd try to balance out their sound by adding midrange support, but, when they have scoop so bad, there's not much to work w/...

Ironically, usually a Mesa player...

But, shrill is shrill.

I have been to shows, where the sound guy did turn things up way too loud, where the guy singing, or guitar hits a note, & you feel like your equilibrium is thrown out of whack.

Not a fun feeling. As an audience member, it pays to bring earplugs for those occasions. I usually bring earplugs for the warmup bands anyway, so my ears are fresh for the bands, that I'm there to see...
F' em all but six.

........and make them carry your amp !

:pirate:
i always heard...F’em-F’em all but six. Save six for pallbearers!
 

marshallmellowed

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The

previous bands ran people off with their lack of entertainment value...regardless of volume. That’s almost always the case!
A tight, well rehearsed, powerful sounding, ( notice I didn’t say necessarily loud)-gotta have big shit to sound powerful-and visually exciting band won’t run people off.
And 90db is just...well...
At this particular venue, which is all I was speaking of, it was volume, at least that's what he was told by his customers.
 


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