Should’ve went with what I knew to be true!

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by trax1139, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. trax1139

    trax1139 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Ab
    Absolutely! I’ll use Zep’s tune “What Is and What Should Never Be” as a good example of extreme dynamics. If you can pull that off with small low watt gear (no PA support) and fill a room with full, fat and a powerful tone, I’ll eat your hat. Oh yeah, you can be loud and then quiet, but, you won’t be big sounding. And THAT, IMHO is what causes people to complain that bands are too loud. They just don’t sound good.
     
  2. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    11,956
    Likes Received:
    20,583

    geezuz relax.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. ricksdisconnected

    ricksdisconnected Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    11,956
    Likes Received:
    20,583


    [​IMG]
     
  4. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    26,791
    Likes Received:
    13,979
    Location:
    united States of America
    There are many things cool about a 100W amplifier.
    One of them is that it can be adjusted down to 30W sound level.
    EQ and distortion effects can do a lot to rectify various situations.
     
  5. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,180
    Likes Received:
    8,341
    That all sounds fine and dandy, you'll have to keep us informed of your upcoming gigs, what type they are (indoor, outdoor...), and how they went.
     
    CloverGrass and El Gringo like this.
  6. Old Punker

    Old Punker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    4,368
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Like this guy?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Messages:
    5,299
    Likes Received:
    8,037
    Thinking back, I have realized that I've had far more amps that were at least 40 watts than amps that were less than 40 watts, and actually most of the amps that were most memorable are 100 watters if not more. I had a 180 watt Fender Super Twin Reverb for a while. It was STUPID loud. Yes, louder than a full 100 watt Marshall stack. I've had two 150 watt Mesa Triple Rectifiers. But I've only owned TWO tube amps that were in the 20 watt class. Well, three, actually, but honestly I never thought
    much of that silverface Champ I had for a while. So I kind of don't count it at all because I never used it.

    I don't think I've ever been without an amp that puts out a minimum of 75 watts in the last 30 years.
     
    trax1139 and Leonard Neemoil like this.
  8. Leonard Neemoil

    Leonard Neemoil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2021
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    350
    Yup, I agree. If you want clean headroom, you need 100 watts. I've made the 20, 30, 50 watt mistake before. Just doesn't work. All are capable of decent/excellent od sounds but clean headroom just sucks.

    Boooo! Lol. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  9. Beltalowda

    Beltalowda Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2021
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    200
    Years ago I went to jam with a drummer I met at a music shop. I took my Peavey Classic 30 thinking 30 watts should be just fine. I guess technically it sorta worked out as far as volume, but I was only able to hang with him after diming everything as well as engaging the internal boost.

    He was heavy-handed for sure, but still, I learned a valuable lesson on headroom that day.
     
  10. bobpick68

    bobpick68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Please point me to all these places in New Mexico. I'd love to play there. I am not exactly happy about the National "turn it down" crap that has happened all over the US these last 10 years or so but MarshallDog is spot on unfortunately and it is what it is. Take it from a working musician that's in 3 bands and runs sound for other bands.
     
    Mitchell Pearrow likes this.
  11. bobpick68

    bobpick68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    This was a post I made the other day on another forum..

    What it comes down to is a sound person should be able to work with anything loud enough to be heard on stage or run direct. What is impossible to work with are people playing small clubs and cranking their half stacks so loud it buries the PA System. I own scalable systems that "can" get over any full stack you throw at it but I am doing local club gigs and smallish outdoor venues. Half stacks and 100w tube amps were designed for much larger venues. This is a fact.

    Now, I have worked with many bands that know how to use a half stack properly in a smaller venue but TBH lately they are getting fewer and farther between. Is it the new region I work in now? Maybe. I know back east the direct thing was really catching fire a couple years ago and yes I much prefer that, but I certainly don't treat anyone any differently no matter what they show up with. I may have a talk with the band members about stage volume beforehand and if I get a soundcheck I will try to keep them in check beforehand but I cant be on stage with people during the performance so I cant control their volume knobs.

    I have packed up in the middle of a gig once. It was a well known metal/hard rock cover band in the area that was having a reunion show. 2 full Marshall stacks and a 3,000 watt bass rig. Honestly I should have never taken the gig to begin with but they were/are friends of mine. From their first aural barrage the patrons ran for the doors. They started with about 200 people and by the time I packed up and left after the 2nd set there were about 10 people not counting the staff. I asked them nicely after the first set to turn way down and was ignored. Actually the more people that left, the louder they turned up. They played well and weren't out of tune, they just were way too loud for this venue. 117db @ 10ft is what I measured that night.

    These were guys in their 40's and 50's. Experienced players, good players and they acted like children.

    In general I dont run into this stuff too much but I have had players tell me they know how to control their volume properly and yada yada only to turn around and blast the first couple rows of people so hard they leave.

    Trust me I get it. I love cranking my 100w tube head through a 4x12. It's almost a religious experience. Unfortunately small to medium venues that serve food and booze aren't the place for it typically.

    It is what it is. Times have changed. Smaller venues (50-250 cap) especially ones that serve booze and food want their patrons to be able to communicate with the servers and bar staff without screaming. The days of smoky bars with rock bands blasting their half stacks at people are pretty much over. There are some that still appreciate that but not very many. I do miss those days as a performer.

    The choice I made was to stay playing music for people at tolerable volumes. I shoot for 85-90db @ 10ft whether it's a band I am in or a band I am doing sound for. That's loud but it's not enough to drive most people out.
     
    Jethro Rocker, Old Punker and RCM 800 like this.
  12. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    4,219
    Location:
    Shakedown Street
    Exactly true and that is the conundrum -to achieve good and proper TONE .
     
    trax1139 likes this.
  13. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    4,219
    Location:
    Shakedown Street
    Hard to disagree with your logic and it is the times that we are living in for sure . I am not going to lie to you as I would be a hassle with my half stacks , but when you write db # those don't lie and it makes me think of my ears .
     
    Mitchell Pearrow and bobpick68 like this.
  14. bobpick68

    bobpick68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    I see "tone" when it comes to being in a band as a band thing. I wish more guitarists in bands did that. When I put an RTA on most guitar rigs they are so bass heavy it's ridiculous. All that does is muddy up the mix. if it's a room that's big enough to properly separate the stage volume from house volume it's all good because typically I will take my HPF on that channel and slide that baby up to about 130hz and that alone fixes quite a bit. Guitars in general should not live in anything under that.
     
    Mitchell Pearrow and El Gringo like this.
  15. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    4,219
    Location:
    Shakedown Street
    I swear you must have seen and heard my rig as I am very bass heavy . Sounds like you know your stuff and what you are doing for sure . It is so much more harder nowadays across the board with everything . Guitarists are so notorious for exactly what you have written about and it has to be a tremendous pain in the keyster for the Sound Man .
     
    Mitchell Pearrow and bobpick68 like this.
  16. bobpick68

    bobpick68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Oh I certainly enjoy some thump when I am at home playing for sure. Luckily I learned fairly early on that it generally doesn't work in a live band mix. I have been gigging fairly regular now for about 35 years and it hasn't really changed.
     
  17. trax1139

    trax1139 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Here come the PA systems!
     
  18. El Gringo

    El Gringo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    4,219
    Location:
    Shakedown Street
    So True !
     
  19. trax1139

    trax1139 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    W
    Why do we sound guys use 4 JBL SRX 728s and a QSC 5050 amp on each one just to get a fat kick drum?
     
  20. AdrianDSL

    AdrianDSL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    270
    Location:
    Melbourne, the place to be. FINED!
    Wish I knew more about tinnitus and how it affect the quality of life 30 years ago.
     
    DreamerDeceiver likes this.

Share This Page