Pulsonic cone formula?...

Maggot Brain

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OK I'm sure most know the lore behind the legendary Pulsonic paper factory. The factory burnt down and the "magic" formula was "lost forever"...

With modern science and technology couldn't someone or maybe Celestion just take a sample from a vintage Pulsonic cone and have an analysis done? I was thinking how there is such high regard for the Pulsonic cones (with good reason) and not really any offerings today that truly "nail" the vintage Greenback sound. You'd think it would be a great way to sell a premium Greenback RI with "authentic" Pulsonic cones.

Then the logic side of me says "Celestion obviously has no problem selling the current GB RI so why would they bother?"

I honestly feel it would be fairly simple these days to get atleast the ingredients from a sample analysis, the recipe might need some improvisation but knowing guitarist it could be a big hit...

Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it isn't that easy? 🤷‍♂️
 

Gene Ballzz

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I'm betting that besides the ingredient formula, there are likely details like the amount of pressure/force used in the process, along with specific temperatures at specific stages. There may even be some very toxic byproducts and or materials used that no wants any connection to in todays enviromentally conscious environment! Who knows? Somebody does, but for some odd reason, they ain't talkin'!
Just My :2c:,
Gene
 

Dogs of Doom

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just remember, Celestion says a Pulsonic is a Mueller, is a.... they're all the same

a blackback is a greenback, is a greyback, is a creamback...

That's what they'll tell you.

MIC, MIUK, same thing... except, they finally realized that there's a demand for MIUK, for their premium speakers...

who knows what they really think/believe, vs what they tell us, for marketing purposes. :shrug:
 

Gene Ballzz

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just remember, Celestion says a Pulsonic is a Mueller, is a.... they're all the same

a blackback is a greenback, is a greyback, is a creamback...

That's what they'll tell you.

MIC, MIUK, same thing... except, they finally realized that there's a demand for MIUK, for their premium speakers...

who knows what they really think/believe, vs what they tell us, for marketing purposes. :shrug:

Imagine that! Human beings lying to and/or misleading other human beings! Who'd have believed it even possible? ;)
An Oh Yeah, The Check's In The Mail,
Gene
 

V-man

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There is an ancient weapon of war known as “Greek Fire,” an incendiary for naval warfare that would not extinguish with water. There is also a Roman form of concrete that is famous for the longevity of its surviving constructions.

With all our modern technology, we don’t know jack shit about accurately reproducing these simple compounds.
 

BlueX

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Then the logic side of me says "Celestion obviously has no problem selling the current GB RI so why would they bother?"
This might be the answer. If there are harmful substances involved, or labour-intensive processes, it might not fit into the bigger companies. Today's products seem to sell quite well instead.

This is where niche actors come in.
 

StingRay85

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It's more than just the chemical composition. I would start with looking at those cones through an electron microscope to see how the cellulose fibers look like, and how they are bonded together. A vertical cut should give an idea on the compression of the fibers. I believe the smoothness of the pulsonic cones are part of the secret of the sound. You can press your finger in them from the back, like you cannot do with any other type of cone. The 55 Hz cones were thinner than the 75 Hz cone (I think this is mentioned on the bygonetones site).
 

Matthews Guitars

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We have learned the secret of Roman concrete. Add a certain amount of volcanic ash to the concrete mix, and you've got it. Concrete that will last as long as granite.
 

GIBSON67

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Even if they had the formula and brought it back with rave reviews, we as guitar players would still want the old stuff.

How many guitarist does it take to screw in a light bulb? 10...one to screw in the bulb and nine to talk about how great the last one was.

Or something like that...
 

Maggot Brain

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just remember, Celestion says a Pulsonic is a Mueller, is a.... they're all the same

a blackback is a greenback, is a greyback, is a creamback...

That's what they'll tell you.

MIC, MIUK, same thing... except, they finally realized that there's a demand for MIUK, for their premium speakers...

who knows what they really think/believe, vs what they tell us, for marketing purposes. :shrug:
Yeah I thought about that and kinda why I said Celestion probably wouldn't bother so maybe a niche for smaller speaker brands such as Jim's etc, I am curious for his reply as I'm sure he's studied the Pulsonic cones.

Even if they had the formula and brought it back with rave reviews, we as guitar players would still want the old stuff.

How many guitarist does it take to screw in a light bulb? 10...one to screw in the bulb and nine to talk about how great the last one was.

Or something like that...
Yeah of course haha the old stuff has the magic "mojo" but I'm sure there would be a market for Pulsonic RI much like Jim's Scumbacks.
 

Scumback Speakers

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I'll make this brief (sinus cold today)...according to Duncan Boniface, former lead speaker engineer @ Celestion, the big difference between the older cones (Pulsonic, Kurt Mueller, etc) is that the wood used to make the pulp was from old growth trees with long fibers. Those are all gone, so new growth/short fiber wood is what they have to make cones with.

Yes, you can age the new cones (no I'm not telling you how I do it) to sound old. Then you have to break them in, and that's when the vintage tones happen. Celestion still knows how to do this, the Marshall Hardwired 18w combo G12M Heritage is a perfect example. It sounds great...but it's aged, broken in, proprietary to Marshall only and it takes (big surprise) a lot of effort to produce.

I don't bother with a chemical analysis or electron microscope inspection since it would be pointless, given the long fiber vs short fiber differences, among others.

What I did was experiment with different cone and doping treatments to match the Pulsonic coned G12M and G12H's I had. Yes, it was a lot of work, destroyed (tonally) a bunch of speakers in the quest.

You also have to understand that KM & Pulsonic had the 55 and 75hz cones that were different thicknesses, etc to contend with as well.

You didn't think I really wanted to buy 400 old Pulsonics and 100 BlackBacks, G12-65 & G12-80's...did you? It just took that many speakers to find the right ones.
 
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