Ppimv Or Attenuator

Discussion in 'Other Amps' started by tremojem, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    You spend $2000 on a guitar, $2000 on an amp,
    Why not make the system complete? One cabinet that will work anywhere from bedroom to concert stage.

    $900 is cheap for what it does. Worth every penny.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    Swede here at the MF bought a Power Station and turned right around and sold it.
     
  3. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    Not me, I got while the getting was good and at far less than $2K/per.
    Yeah if you've got it, there is a recession going on.
     
  4. Metroman

    Metroman Well-Known Member

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    For every 1 that doesn't like it. I can show you 20 who do.
     
  5. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    I wish someone would start a MF thread on the Fryette Power Station. I don't recall the explicits but, Swede broke it down about the why's and wherefores as to what it was about PS that didn't work for him. If we could get all of the PS owners together in one thread discussing the PS's attributes and shortcomings it would certainly be more helpful to prospective buyers.
     
  6. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    I believe that it's possible to do what the OP asks w/o the PPIMV, attenuator, Power Station, and Flux Tone speaker(s). As a matter of fact, Zachman here on the MF has probably discussed this very subject at least a million and one times on how to do it w/o major out of pocket expenditures. Go Zachy :yesway:
     
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  7. wakjob

    wakjob Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's called re-amping.

    Requires a loadbox for the amp.
    Amp has to have a "Line Out" or the loadbox does.
    And the purchasing of a separate power amp.

    Hmmmm... sounds like the Fryette Power Station.
     
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  8. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    Or not, if you already own other amps or power amps. I own a Peavey Classic Series 60/60 power amp w/2x6L6 per side and 'Line Out'.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  9. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  10. Metroman

    Metroman Well-Known Member

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    Seems like Swede LOVED IT ????

    "QUOTE"


    [​IMG]
    SwedeWell-Known Member

    Quick review for now....It does in fact work as advertised. I cant hear any difference taking it down to whisper quiet.

    It does in facts still act like im at ungodly loud volumes. I can bring about feedback at low volumes, and also it becomes noisier, not noisy in a bad way, but noisy as in, its super loud and i gotta make sure i play cleanly, kind of noisy.

    It does get a little warm, but nothing out of the ordinary. Have both channels about 9 right now, so fairly close to dimed. more than enough to hear the power tubes breaking up.

    So far i like it a lot, the real test will of course come at rehersal, but it certainly works for a Marshall on 10 in a bedroom setting, without any loss of tone, that I can hear.

    I will reset the EQ, as the amp now thinks it plays Dodger Stadium, and acts accordingly:)

    PS! It has thick rubber feet it sits on, and it fits nicely on a smallbox Marshall FYI, very sturdy and well built.

    Swede, Oct 2, 2015






    Its really not complicated.

    The PS does exactly what its supposed to do, and it does it well. It can take you down to whisper quiet levels, and still maintain great fidelity, feel/response.

    It is also a 1-50 watt Tube Power Amp, that can jack up a Fender Champ/Vibro Champ to 50 Watts, with the right speakers/load. A 4 x 12 with Altec Lansing 417H x 69 Fender Vibro Champ , ramped up to 40 watts = glorious.

    This unit allows me to use any of my LOW WATT amps LIVE, 1 Watt Marshall reamped to 50 watts ???? 18 Watt Marshall at 50 Watts ?

    It also makes a really nice 2 x 6L6 Power Amp, to add a Preamp amp to.

    Get an Effectrode Blackbird Tube Preamp ??? Alembic F 2B preamp????

    I had a PPIV MV put on my 69 Dual Showman, Blackfaced, ODS Mod PPIV MV, and couldn't redo the MV Control back to original fast enough. I didn't want to leave the MV there, so it was taken out.

    Id rather have VVR /MV when applicable, than straight PPIMV, but I don't like them/VVR either.

    IMHO the only downside to the PS is the cost.

    Also, IMHO many people have come up with other ways to Reduce Hum, on 60hz Strat/Single Coil pups, but IMHO the only 1's to get it right is Ilitch/Suhr.

    I also think the Speaker Thingy is a great Idea, but have never used it, but I could almost get both the PS, AND an Effectrode Blackbird, and have a whole new amp. + the ability to sound good at low levels.

    But I'm 100% for anything that actually works, regardless of the innovative angle that is comes from.
     
  11. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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  12. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    After all the wonderful equipment praises I ALWAYS look for the follow up threads. :yesway:
     
  13. tremojem

    tremojem Member

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    Played the Plexi at rehearsal on Saturday for 3.5 hours. Channel 1 at 3/4 and channel 2 at 1/2, bridged. PPIMV at 1/2. It was glorious.

    Drummer always wears ear protection...I did too, LOL, but it still sounded and felt great.
     
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  14. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    "I've yet to see Ken Fischer's (Trainwreck Amplifiers) take on the Post Phase Inverter Master Volume circuit."

    The trainwreck master volume IS PPIMV. It was one of the very first available, and used by many techs who modded amps.
    This is the master volume without any coupling caps, and far as sound quality, it is by far the best one of all.
    However (of course) PPIMV prevents power amp distortion, which is not as desirable compared to controlling loudness AT the speakers.
    upload_2016-6-6_7-7-35.jpeg
    It actually works pretty good compared to other designs, although the pot must be rated (recommended) 300V insulation or higher.
    Which is why (recommended) you should use PEC Canada Pot to install it, which is what I always insist on.
    No it will not hurt the amp to use this, provided it's installed correctly.
     
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  15. coldengray

    coldengray Active Member VIP Member

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    I thought the LarMar master was basically Ken Fischer's with safety resistors added? I'm no expert so correct me if I am wrong.
     
  16. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that info AMS :yesway: When you say "controlling loudness AT the speakers", using a single volume amp do you really mean controlling loudness at the amp or at the guitar OR are you speaking with reference to using Flux Tone speaker(s)?

    What about the pre-master volume circuits that Marshall used in the MV era of Marshall?
     
  17. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    The pre-master is just relying on preamp distortion. Once again you have lost the true potential of power amp over-driving.

    Controlling loudness at the speaker is just basically cranking the amp wide open to get the power amp distortion.
    Using one of several methods to control the final loudness:
    Less speakers, less efficient speakers, fluxtone, attenuator, iso cabinet, or any of that.

    The guitar volume knob is used to go between clean and overdrive sounds. (this is the key to playing a Marshall amp)

    But when you are using a PPIMV, you will not get the power amp to overdrive. This is why the PPIMV is one of the least effective methods.
    The tone that you "could" get is basically spoiled by using that method.
    But PPIMV is much cheaper anyway, compared to attenuator, etc...it's the poor mans solution to loudness control despite losing the good tone of the power amp over-driving.

    Yup, it depends on what you can afford to pay for.
     
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  18. jack daniels

    jack daniels Well-Known Member

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    Even though I don't have your background in amp repair I can get the gist of many of your conversations as I have an Associates Degree in Electronics and a 2yr. Vo-Tech background in same. I don't keep up with amp related electronics anymore like I used to when I was younger and so enamored with the whole idea of tube amplifiers. Most likely because I'm old school and really have no interest in modern amps. The only minor exception that I can think of is my THD Bivalve head which I can roll and combine various old and new 8 pin octal and 9 pin noval tubes in. When you speak of pre and post MV's you're preaching to the choir (no offense intended).

    And it also depends upon your circumstances. Mine is: 1) I don't play out 2) I'm at home with others to consider 3) Having $1500 or > for a Flux Tone speaker/controller is out of the question unless I sell something which would mean my vintage equipment or great guitars and that ain't gonna happen. Unless the economy turns around and I can get my good paying old job back again I can't forsee spending the amount on gear like these youngsters are paying for now (mostly on credit). Have you taken a look at prices for anything guitar related in 'Sweetwater Progear' ? It's absolutely Ludicrous with a capital 'L'.
     

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