Please Help Me Identify These Speakers... GEEZZZZ!

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Moose Lewis, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys. Bought this cab yesterday. Supposed to have vintage Greenbacks that have been reconed to spec by Orange County Speaker.
    Speaker Repair Official Site - Parts & Service - Orange County Speaker

    I had to check 'em out at low volume where I bought 'em, and they sounded pretty good. Got home to the studio and not happy about it. Opened the 2x12 cab (Marshall 1922) and took some pix in hopes someone could confirm or tell me what I've actually got before I sell them to somebody else.

    They are marked T1221 GG 25 X on the frames, as you can see in the photo. Supposed to be 16ohm speakers. Please let me know if you recognize these.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I ran greenies for years, and these just don't sound like 'em to me. Too much treble for starters. My WGS Green Berets smoke 'em for overall tone and response, IMHO.

    Thanks ~ and Cheers!
    :cheers:
    Moose
     
  2. Australian

    Australian Green Beret Silver Supporting Member VIP Member

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    Great score! They'd be Greenbacks from around the 70's.

    In regards to them sounding Trebly and lack of bass, check that they arent out of phase with eachother, because thats a problem I had with some of my early Greenbacks.
     
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  3. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    They appear to be wired in parallel properly. Maybe it's the presswood cab. My Green Berets are in a 'homemade' 1/2 Birch ply cab. I have to turn the treble almost off on my amp. The bass is muddier than the WGS speakers, and I have to use more gain to get my feedback tones. Pretty frustrated.

    So... these really are Greenbacks? Don't sound like the ones I remember... maybe it's just me.

    They're wired black to black & red to red, with the red wire going to the tip on the jack and the black to ground.

    Thanks, Australian!
    :cheers:
     
  4. Australian

    Australian Green Beret Silver Supporting Member VIP Member

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  5. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man! :)

    EDIT: They seem to be going in the same direction (out). Moomph. Could the 1922 presswood cab make that much of a difference?

    Well, anyway - I found out what I needed to know. They are Greenbacks.
    Thanks much!
    :cheers:
    Cheers
     
  6. RiverRatt

    RiverRatt Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    They look to be wired the right way in the pictures.
     
  7. metromutt

    metromutt Well-Known Member

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    Your spks are from July 74, 16ohm (set amp to 8R load) 25w. If you've had new cones fitted they'll need breaking in but I've no idea of the quality of the cone paper or fitting and that will make a huge difference in quality of tone, for me any speaker that's been reconed isn't gonna be original or sound like it but if I had to recone I'd go to for a vintage cone from Jim at Scumback he's the master at vintage replicas.... I'd put a 003 replica in those... the originals would of more likely been Muellers/ R/C cones and probably cream cap covers? although the stove finish paint is very similar to a BB frame?
    Hope that helps?

    :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  8. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    Hey thanks metromutt ~ all info helps at this point! :D As of first thing this morning, they're on CL. Switched back to Green Beret cab. This experience made me realize how much I like them.

    You could be right about the cone... but these speakers have been lightly played for a couple of years, although never gigged (came from my luthier). I doubt any further breaking in will make a difference. Seems these cabs are known for 'beaming', and that is part of my issue - but the overall tonal balance doesn't suit. So off with their heads. ;)
     
  9. Ken

    Ken Well-Known Member

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    Aren't T1221 G12H-30's? I always think of Greenbacks as 25 watts with medium magnets...

    Ken
     
  10. Clammy

    Clammy Well-Known Member

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    T1281 (amongst others) are H30s. T1221 are M25s.

    Cheers!
    :dude::dude::dude:
     
  11. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    Good to know, guys!
    :cheers:
     
  12. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    not all greenbacks sound the same. so many variations exist of the classic T1221 greenback depending on the year they were made.

    and a reconed speaker will not sound the same as one with an original cone.
     
  13. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the input guys! I appreciate you verifying my Greenback buy.

    NOW... time to 'fess up. I'm not afraid of looking like an idiot. If I was, I would have never climbed up on stage. The speakers sound fine. Great, in fact.

    I had swapped out power tubes that were the same type, but read a little higher. Apparently that was all it took. When I went back to my old cab tonight, it did the same thing and it finally dawned on me. I've been workin' too many hours, but that's NO excuse.

    So feel free to point fingers and make fun. I apologize for making a problem where there was not one. All is cool now, and I'm keeping the lovely Greenies.

    What can I say? Immafukkinidiot.
    [​IMG]
    Moose out ~ Cheers, guys!
    :cheers:
     
  14. Ken

    Ken Well-Known Member

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    That's right, I was confused.

    I don't suppose anyone knows ANY on line list for T #'s? I've searched and never came up with one. All I can do is Google an actual T number and find posts here or in other groups where they're mentioned.

    Ken
     
  15. GIBSON67

    GIBSON67 Well-Known Member

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    At least you didn't sell them! Then you would have been really upset!
     
  16. Moose Lewis

    Moose Lewis Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Noooo question.

    I've had a bad run with losing money on equipment recently, and thought this was a final dig. Thankfully, it wound up being medicine. I'm totally stoned on the tone of these speaks.
    :cheers:
     
  17. Clammy

    Clammy Well-Known Member

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    There's some pretty good info on that here:

    Celestion "Greenback" ID thread, pics, descriptions, etc. - The Gear Page

    Cheers!
    :dude::dude::dude:
     
  18. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    there is one in the doyle book, but there is no need for such an exhaustive list with Marshall.

    up until about 1979 the main three you will find in marshalls are:

    T1221 (75HZ G12M)
    T1511 (55HZ G12M)
    T1281 (55HZ G12H)

    they also used T1886 (another type of 55HZ G12H) in the marshall artiste combos and in some late 70's bass 4x12 cabs.

    if you find anything else, in 4x12 cabs anyway, they are likely to be replacements.

    T1217 (75HZ G12H) is also a commonly found speaker (and one of my favourites) but was never used as a stock speaker by Marshall. It was used by Orange, Laney, Carlsbro etc.
     
  19. metromutt

    metromutt Well-Known Member

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    What about T1220's the 8ohm variant, did these appear in marshalls?
    There's a guy I know who get's a wicked sound from a quad of those in a straight front marshall:naughty:
    tbh I think flipping out or mixing speakers in marshall cabs is a must. I have a 4x12 cab with all T1221's but they're all tonally different due to age and cone... 003 cone, 6402 cone in the top and a 1777 and 444 bass cone in the bottom, works for me.
     
  20. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    I know everyone loves Jim, but there is some pretty crap info in that thread too.

    4th picture down is a fake music ground speaker for a start, with a Jan 67 date stamp on the frame (instead of on the front gasket) and no small circular inspection stamp. classic MG fakery, and has one of their classic fake white marshall labels on the back.

    you would think after buying 200 pre-rolas he would spot that ;) and after 400 that he is now claiming, he would at least ammend the info.

    "The T1281's were put into 4x12 BASS and 100 logo'd cabs"

    T1281's were not used in bass cabs. T1511 were used in bass cabs. common knowledge among vintage marshall collectors.

    "T1221 G12M, May 1966 intro date. These came with "Pre Rola" Celestion labels like this one:"

    Ive seen several from 1965. they came with gold labels to start with, then 20 watt labels. Only in 68 did they have 25 watt labels 'like that one'.

    I could go on...

    not a bad starting point though if you are new to vintage speakers.
     

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