Origin 20 owners, pedal that adds gain w/o changing amp's tone

gregr

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As an alternate take/flip...

Have you tried a DiMarzio FS1 in the bridge? Full up it will drive well, and roll off your guitar volume a bit and it gets very close to a typical a5 pole vintage strat pickup. One in the neck works too. And they are proper singles, not humbucking. Check out old KK Downing or James JY Young clips from the 70s. They did use boost though for leads.

If you use the quack positions. they will lose some mojo. I hate position 2 or 4 on a strat so it never bothered me. But I used the FS1 in the bridge with two low ish output a5s...mid 5s to 6k range.
Add a treble bleed on the volume control and it’ll get you closer, though I totally get where daz is coming from.
 
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solarburnDSL50

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Well...any player that wants an attenuator with a 20 watt amp stubs his toe and fallz on his face. And all that agree? Fall on your face.

Also I'd put my Classic Core pups against any offerings then and now. Almost take the nostalgia out of any post I've read where guitarist are rubbing one off thinking "I've got the shit".:lol:

I keed. What do I know...?:ohno:
 

fitz288

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Do you have an attenuator?

Being able to run mine at gig settings on the dial at home REALLY helps get close to the tone etc. Of course, Fletcher Munson and speaker drive makes it a bit different but still real close. Closer than not anyway.

I recommend the PS1 for (very) cheap and effective.
Not a bad idea.
If you want to set gig tones at home volumes on the O20, this may be your best option.
MV for $100.
 

solarburnDSL50

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Well...my widdle pedal makes the Hot cheeks knock on my door. Fuck they're fast!

for pussy? It's what's for deener.

not a Marshall amp at the end of her stroke...yes I'm crude...so others can feel uplifted! Whoop! I wish it was that easy. Speaking of easy the fucking neighbor girl said one of 2 things. Fuck u? Or f uuuuuk u! I don't speak fluent English so all that passion got sucked out by the wizards in the thumb raised I need a ride and my dog won't bite u!

 
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Biff Maloy

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The Origin really needs the master up. Way up. I never thought of the Origin as a preamp first amp. I think from your comments your approach is backwards. Your amp sounds normal though with the master at 3 comment.

I used an Fender AVRI 1959 Stratocaster into my 20H.

Most of the gain or the best sounds in general are in the master volume being up.
 

Msharky67

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I have wondered this too. I like my 20h but it does not respond to pedals like you would expect it to like a JCM800. I am using the NUX Plexi Crunch and NUX DS-3 (DS-1 copy). I also have a TS-9 and SD-1. I don't know what I am doing wrong but it doesn't work well with either of those SD-1 and TS-9. Its like the amp is [email protected]% backwards. I don't understand why but it is. The NUX pedals work great for some reason. The volume control effects the whole amps volume . The amp doesn't also feel pushed when you slam it with another pedal like other amps do. I still like the amp. Also I think it sounds best without external attenuator. I have the PS-1 but maybe others would respond differently. I am itching for the EHX Soul Food and or the NUX TS-9 copy to see how those respond. I don't want to get into buying a lot more pedals. I like to keep it simple. I will have to wait until I get them to try it out.
 

Msharky67

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The Origin really needs the master up. Way up. I never thought of the Origin as a preamp first amp. I think from your comments your approach is backwards. Your amp sounds normal though with the master at 3 comment.

I used an Fender AVRI 1959 Stratocaster into my 20H.

Most of the gain or the best sounds in general are in the master volume being up.

I agree with this but why does using the effects like delay make it space out for some reason. Like the level is off or too much. :scratch:
 

daz

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I agree with this but why does using the effects like delay make it space out for some reason. Like the level is off or too much. :scratch:
I discussed this earlier, and it is one of the reasons i don't want a lot of power amp grind and who an attenuation is last on my list. The explanation is simple. The reason people usually put delays in the loop is because they want the delay to come AFTER the distortion. People who do NOT use their guitar volume for cleaning and use a certain amount of drive all the time probably don't understand why, but i do use my volume knob a lot and this is the reason. Lets say you set your delay so the amount is just right with your guitar on 10. If the overdive is generated after the delay what happens is when you roll your guitar volume down to get clean tones the delay disappears or at least becomes very slight. Like turning the mix knob on the delay way down. If you set the right amount of delay with your guitar volume on say 5, then when you turn it to 10 you will have a crazy amount of delay. So by putting the delay in the loop on amps that generate mostly preamp distortion like a DSL, the delay is AFTER the distortion and u don't have that issue. But when you have an amp like the origin which these days is the exception to the rule, putting delay in the loop doesn't work the same since u are generating much or even all of the distortion in the power amp, so theres no way to put delay after the distortion.This is why i want to generate more preamp overdrive rather than obtaining much of my drive from the power amp. I will still get some PA drive, but hopefully i will be able to balance it out and get most or at least as much from the preamp. Otherwise i'm going to be just that much more likely to return the origin before my 45 days at GC are up. I have a modeler i have been using for a long time and it works and sounds great, so it's not like i NEEDED this amp. I just wanted it for a certain flavor i like that only happens with more vintage tube amps. I would never buy a DSL because i actually prefer the tones i get from my modeler to those.
 

Biff Maloy

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I ran an Echoplex copy out front on mine.

I get what you're saying you want to accomplish Daz. It's your decision. I just think you have the wrong amp for your application. Numerous threads and discussions on the Origin series when it came out. A lot of bad demos and just about all of them involved lots of preamp and low power amp approaches. To me that's just not in the amp's wheelhouse. With you being a from the guitar guy, i definitely am, why won't you try approaching it as has been suggested by me and a few others here. A 70s guy as you say. Curious.
 

daz

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I ran an Echoplex copy out front on mine.

I get what you're saying you want to accomplish Daz. It's your decision. I just think you have the wrong amp for your application. Numerous threads and discussions on the Origin series when it came out. A lot of bad demos and just about all of them involved lots of preamp and low power amp approaches. To me that's just not in the amp's wheelhouse. With you being a from the guitar guy, i definitely am, why won't you try approaching it as has been suggested by me and a few others here. A 70s guy as you say. Curious.
Well, for one thing i am a "delay always on" guy and i rely on it for my sound and have for decades. Second, i get a sound i really am happy with by driving the preamp and the only issue is noise. So this is NOT a backwards approach as you said, if it is thenDSL's and all other cascaded pre's are backwards amps. My approach is to find a way to get a drive tone out of it that sounds more like 70's rock than the DSLs and other like it do, and i do NOT like that kind of marshall sound with the exception of earlier designs like the 800/900/jubilee, and even those aren't quite what i wanted when i bought the origin. I want something in between the 2 and decided i will try one and experiment and try and get that from it.
Your thoughts regarding what i am doing are much like what i see on bike forums all the time. One guy discusses how to get more performance out of his bike and another guy will say why are you doing this, you should have just bought a bike with a bigger engine in the first place. But the guy is doing it because there is no other bike he likes in many ways near as much and he would not be happy having just the performance he wants in a bike he otherwise doesn't like at all. thats where i am with the origin That may not make sense to you but it makes perfect sense to me, and i know what i am doing FOR me. If it doesn't work out then so be it. I bought it KNOWING it might not. When i ask the questions like i did in this thread i'm simply looking for thoughts on how to accomplish what i want, and if i see flaws *for me* in the suggestions i get, thats why i don't try them.

The fact is most or all of what i'm being told i already know. I'm simply looking for suggestions from those in the same boat and to see how they did it. And if there IS no one in the same boat or they have no suggestions that i feel might work, thats ok. I still have over a month to return it. Also note that for over a decade i built a number of amps, not kits but from scratch and spent endless hours experimenting and tweaking. So i understand tube amp circuits and how they work. And i know this amp has potential that i need to explore. And again, if i fail thats fine. I bought it to try and get something from it i knew it wasn't optimal for. I have greenback out for delivery today and we will see how much grind that adds and maybe that will advance my challenge. But what u need to understand is the motivation in buying this amp....it's an experiment that may or may not work. I didn't buy it because i needed an amp. All i wanted from this thread are suggestions and i got them and have weeded out the ones that i know aren't gonna work for me. Thats all it is. Just understand i know when i hear something that won't, and those i am unsure of i may try depending on cost or other reasons. But rather than question why i don't try what u suggest just know i have my reasons and i'm not clueless about how amp circuits work.
 

scozz

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Well...any player that wants an attenuator with a 20 watt amp stubs his toe and fallz on his face. And all that agree? Fall on your face…….
I use an attenuator with my 20 watt amp, it works for me, and I don’t give a shit what anyone thinks. :)

I like the tone of my SC20 with the master up around 7 or 8, and my music room is fairly small. So there’s no way I can get the master anywhere near what I want without attenuating. :D
 
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solarburnDSL50

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I use an attenuator with my 20 watt amp, it works for me, and I don’t give a shit what anyone thinks. :)

I like the tone of my SC20 with the master up around 7 or 8, and my music room is fairly small. So there’s no way I can get the master anywhere near what I want without attenuating. :D

:lol:

I knew my buds did. Was waiting for the backlash. You of all people know how to take me.

Woose!:D Keep dem ears!
 

Edgar Frog

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I don't use single coils at all only HB's so I don't know how those work on the Origin. One thing I would try is higher gain preamp tubes at least in v1. That way you can get a little more natural gain out the front end without having to push it as hard. It may add a little noise though. I have a full set of high gain JJECC83S's to stick in someday to get a little more out of it. My ORI20H runs quiet even with od's/dirt/distortion pushing the crap out the front so I'm not worried about any noise issues even if I gain a little, which I expect. All my modulations, delay and verb always sound great in the loop no matter how hard I push the frontend as it is now.
 

solarburnDSL50

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I don't use single coils at all only HB's so I don't know how those work on the Origin. One thing I would try is higher gain preamp tubes at least in v1. That way you can get a little more natural gain out the front end without having to push it as hard. It may add a little noise though. I have a full set of high gain JJECC83S's to stick in someday to get a little more out of it. My ORI20H runs quiet even with od's/dirt/distortion pushing the crap out the front so I'm not worried about any noise issues even if I gain a little, which I expect. All my modulations, delay and verb always sound great in the loop no matter how hard I push the frontend as it is now.

I run a 12AY7 in V1. Still get plenty of gain and it quieted the amps hiss/wooliness.

I don't want modern heavy with this amp. To me understanding what and how this amp works is crucial. I still get a healthy hard rock out of her. She's going through a EVH 412 loud and proud. I can roll off for cleans and in betweens.

Having strong 12AX7's in V1 is over done. Depends what you want out of the amp. Me? Clear the hair and then hit it.
 

Biff Maloy

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Well, for one thing i am a "delay always on" guy and i rely on it for my sound and have for decades. Second, i get a sound i really am happy with by driving the preamp and the only issue is noise. So this is NOT a backwards approach as you said, if it is thenDSL's and all other cascaded pre's are backwards amps. My approach is to find a way to get a drive tone out of it that sounds more like 70's rock than the DSLs and other like it do, and i do NOT like that kind of marshall sound with the exception of earlier designs like the 800/900/jubilee, and even those aren't quite what i wanted when i bought the origin. I want something in between the 2 and decided i will try one and experiment and try and get that from it.
Your thoughts regarding what i am doing are much like what i see on bike forums all the time. One guy discusses how to get more performance out of his bike and another guy will say why are you doing this, you should have just bought a bike with a bigger engine in the first place. But the guy is doing it because there is no other bike he likes in many ways near as much and he would not be happy having just the performance he wants in a bike he otherwise doesn't like at all. thats where i am with the origin That may not make sense to you but it makes perfect sense to me, and i know what i am doing FOR me. If it doesn't work out then so be it. I bought it KNOWING it might not. When i ask the questions like i did in this thread i'm simply looking for thoughts on how to accomplish what i want, and if i see flaws *for me* in the suggestions i get, thats why i don't try them.

The fact is most or all of what i'm being told i already know. I'm simply looking for suggestions from those in the same boat and to see how they did it. And if there IS no one in the same boat or they have no suggestions that i feel might work, thats ok. I still have over a month to return it. Also note that for over a decade i built a number of amps, not kits but from scratch and spent endless hours experimenting and tweaking. So i understand tube amp circuits and how they work. And i know this amp has potential that i need to explore. And again, if i fail thats fine. I bought it to try and get something from it i knew it wasn't optimal for. I have greenback out for delivery today and we will see how much grind that adds and maybe that will advance my challenge. But what u need to understand is the motivation in buying this amp....it's an experiment that may or may not work. I didn't buy it because i needed an amp. All i wanted from this thread are suggestions and i got them and have weeded out the ones that i know aren't gonna work for me. Thats all it is. Just understand i know when i hear something that won't, and those i am unsure of i may try depending on cost or other reasons. But rather than question why i don't try what u suggest just know i have my reasons and i'm not clueless about how amp circuits work.

Yep. Seen those. And your the guy on truck forums with a big new lift installed yet you can't figure out why it won't pull a trailer.

I'm not questioning your knowledge at all. I don't know you. I know how you've come across in a very short time though so it's probably a good thing we don't knowing me. I was really just looking for some conversation and see if i could help. I knew it was a risk to ask for more info. Your response was pretty much what i expected but hoped it wouldn't be. It's a shame because this is something i have almost 40 years experience with myself. This isn't a side hobby of mine. And, your interests, instrument of choice (just about everybody missed the vintage strat reference) are very similar to mine concerning the Origin. I had that amp a while and used it. A lot. I even like delay. 70s tones are right up my alley of influences.

Your right. I don't have a clue how to get what you want with the way you're doing it. Maybe somebody else who does backwards ass shit will come along to help.

Later,
 


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