Origin 20 owners, pedal that adds gain w/o changing amp's tone

daz

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@daz
This is my 50H on the low power setting, volume at 3
Tilt maxed
Bass 5
Presence 8
Mids 8
Treble 8
Boost is off
Gain 8

No pedals on the floor, just the mxr10 band eq.
Thanks for listening

Ok, but 1-you must have hot pickups and 2-are you driving the loop return for more OD with the EQ? No one ever mentions what they do with the EQ, they just mention it in the loop and i don't know if they are driving the return stage for V2 distortion with the EQ by jacking the EQ volume way up or what. (tried that, sounds buzzy) In any case, with my master on 3 and gain not on 8 like you, but MAXED, and a strat with vintage pickups the amp is as clean as clean can be and the volume won't even cut above the TV. You either have really hot pickups or are using the EQ to drive the front or the return but you don't mention any of that. When i asked about how much gain others get from the amp alone i mentioned a strat with vintage pickups, but hot humbuckers are way hotter then 6k strats and is like using a clean boost by comparison.
 

Benny2112

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I have the SV20H and not the O20, BUT, I have found the Joyo Sweet Baby to be the perfect drive pedal for it. These can be picked up pretty cheap and can add gain without "completely" coloring your tone. Just gives you "more", if that makes sense.

Unfortunately any type of gain pedal is going to add some noise, but some add more than others. I have the Joyo Sweet Baby and a 7 band EQ pedal (both out front, not in the loop) that are pretty much on all the time.
 

Mitchell Pearrow

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Ok, but 1-you must have hot pickups and 2-are you driving the loop return for more OD with the EQ? No one ever mentions what they do with the EQ, they just mention it in the loop and i don't know if they are driving the return stage for V2 distortion with the EQ by jacking the EQ volume way up or what. (tried that, sounds buzzy) In any case, with my master on 3 and gain not on 8 like you, but MAXED, and a strat with vintage pickups the amp is as clean as clean can be and the volume won't even cut above the TV. You either have really hot pickups or are using the EQ to drive the front or the return but you don't mention any of that. When i asked about how much gain others get from the amp alone i mentioned a strat with vintage pickups, but hot humbuckers are way hotter then 6k strats and is like using a clean boost by comparison.
My MXR10 band eq is in front of the amp.
All my Strats have humbuckers, or the JB jr, I have no Strats with vintage pups
 

Mitchell Pearrow

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Ok, but 1-you must have hot pickups and 2-are you driving the loop return for more OD with the EQ? No one ever mentions what they do with the EQ, they just mention it in the loop and i don't know if they are driving the return stage for V2 distortion with the EQ by jacking the EQ volume way up or what. (tried that, sounds buzzy) In any case, with my master on 3 and gain not on 8 like you, but MAXED, and a strat with vintage pickups the amp is as clean as clean can be and the volume won't even cut above the TV. You either have really hot pickups or are using the EQ to drive the front or the return but you don't mention any of that. When i asked about how much gain others get from the amp alone i mentioned a strat with vintage pickups, but hot humbuckers are way hotter then 6k strats and is like using a clean boost by comparison.
And yes the V has some pretty hot pups the Gibson dirty fingers. Thanks
 

fitz

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I don't want to rely on power amp OD because then i am in the same old syndrome as old non master amps where once you get the right tonne you were at a volume thats a crap shoot as to whether it will be right for the situation. So unless someone has found a better solution than pedal distortion i'd like to hear what pedal will add it's own overdrive to the origin and not sacrifice the feel and sound of the origin's preamp being driven. Yes, i know output distortion is great, but i need to be able to set the master to the right volume for the venue and hopefully get SOME PA grind then have OD up front i can add as needed to get to the right drive level i need. Hope that was clear
Here's the problem with what you want - it's not a MV amp.
The O20 gets its "drive tone" from both the preamp and the power amp.
OD pedals up front and EQ pedals in the loop can shape the tone - I get a ton of tones from the O20 this way.
Any combination of dirt pedal / front end boost, preamp gain, loop EQ boost, and power amp volume that gets you the tone you want, will change if you change any of the variables.
If you change the power amp volume, everything else in the chain needs adjusting.
If you want a consistent tone with master volume control, the amp has to be clean with everything on the front end.
I use totally different methods to get what I want at low volume and cranked volume.
 
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TheToneDig

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Wampler Tumnus is a Klon Klone.

There are 3 main types of ways to use any OD/Distortion pedal with an amp going through the front.

1 - The pedal mostly overrides the amp tones.
2 - The amp mostly overrides the pedal's tone.
3 - Neither overrides the other. Unity gain.

Work on finding how to balance things for #3. The key is to know the sweet spot points on the dials of both pedal and amp. When a certain point on the dial makes a significant jump different to all the other points on the dial. Some systems may have more than one of those on the dial.

Peace out and enjoy your pedals and tone shaping.
 

Ufoscorpion

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I've got the Buxom Boost. Quietest pedal I've ever used in front.

Get to use the pedals own EQ, gain and tight settings or as a clean boost yet still shape with tight/gain. Did I say the pedal is quiet?:D

I love mine with my Origin 50. I chose right for this amp. Paid off. Nice when that happens. So many pedals out there. Easy to waste money.
I’ve only heard really positive things about the buxom boost , but your very positive opinion on top makes me getting one a dead cert solar .
 

jeffb

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When i say adds gain i don't mean driving the input of the amp with a clean boost. Been doing that but it's just way to noisy at band volume. I have tried everything but not a lot in the way of pedal distortion. To be clear, distortion generated with a pedal with the level control set for unity gain so the amp's input is not being slammed, you're only adding more distortion from the pedal. I'd just keep doing it the way i am if it weren't so damn noisy. But i'm a single coil guy and have no intention if using noisless tone killing pickups. Been there and done that and not doing it anymore. I only have tube screamers as far as pedals that do that, and i hate TS distortion. Sounds nothing like the origin. I only have them because i used to use them for clean boosts with a mid hump into tube amps that already had a classic rock degree of OD happening, and for that i DO like them. Never liked the TS distortion tho.

So heres the thing....i like the OD i get slamming the input with a clean boost but it;s just too noisy. I don't want to rely on power amp OD because then i am in the same old syndrome as old non master amps where once you get the right tonne you were at a volume thats a crap shoot as to whether it will be right for the situation. So unless someone has found a better solution than pedal distortion i'd like to hear what pedal will add it's own overdrive to the origin and not sacrifice the feel and sound of the origin's preamp being driven. Yes, i know output distortion is great, but i need to be able to set the master to the right volume for the venue and hopefully get SOME PA grind then have OD up front i can add as needed to get to the right drive level i need. Hope that was clear, and to those who felt the same and found a way to do it, what pedal or method worked for you ? And to e clear, YES, i know single coils will always be a noise issue. I'm not looking to eliminate it, just not exaggerate the living hell out of it by boosting the input with a 26db signal as i've been doing.

Ok. so vintage singles. And I'm with ya on noiseless. I played vintage style strats and teles for several years. But not since I had my Origin. And well noise u have to deal with those pickups.

BUT. I did have one guitar with PAF level output pickups and coil split which was around 4k split. Only way to get much Drive was to have boost on permanently. Got you into Rory Gallagher territory levels of gain (like his Ac30 tone without the range master on)

I don't think you are going to find exactly what you want without making compromises,OR going to a naturally higher gain Amp. DSL does work great with vintage singles. Plenty of gain.

Good luck.
 

gregr

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I’ve yet to hear an overdrive that sounds good when set to unity.

That out of the way, here are some that might layer ok…

Try a Timmy. Get a Mosky MM Silver if you want to dabble before taking the plunge.

The Mooer Blues Mood Is a clone of the Keely Super Phat Mod. IMO I t’s a better pedal than the BD-2. The BD-2w is Boss’s take on the Keely Fat mod, which was commonly done to the stock BD-2. The C mode It’s a little bit different which may or may not be better for you.

Depending on how much gain you want, the Xotic RC booster and BB Preamp are other good options.

…and the Soul Food. That’s all I got.
 
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daz

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Whats the deal with the EQ in the loop? I keep reading this here in reference to gain and i'm wondering if some are doing what i tried, IE: cranking the volume on the EQ then lowering the amp master to get some extra OD by driving the return side of the V2 tube. Is that what some of you do?
 

gregr

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- Fine tune your tone for any given level of volume (Fletcher-Munson)
- Fine tune your tone in general
- Reclaim bass that was shaved off to keep the gain stages tight (like a resonance control but better if you want to keep the PA tight)
- Frowny-faced solo boost
- Jam the PI if you have a PPIMV
 

fitz

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Whats the deal with the EQ in the loop? I keep reading this here in reference to gain and i'm wondering if some are doing what i tried, IE: cranking the volume on the EQ then lowering the amp master to get some extra OD by driving the return side of the V2 tube. Is that what some of you do?
Not exactly.
My EQ (in the loop) settings vary by volume.
Boost frequencies (to taste) to enhance what's coming out of the preamp, and goose the power section.
At low volume I have it in a sort of Fletcher-Munson "V", and kind of the opposite when cranked.
@gregr beat me to it.
And I think @Mitchell Pearrow has a kind of mid boost out front on his 10 band when cranking the O50s.
Adjust for how your speakers respond to everything else.
I don't boost the loop to lower the volume, I boost to boost.
 

daz

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The biggest issue in sorting this out is theres no way to figure it out at home at the low volume thats the most i can play at. This is one of those amps thats nite and day different in how it reacts to setting and pedals etc at home vs at gig volume. I remember going thru this in the 70's before master volumes with cascaded preamps were common, and when they became common i started using them and never looked back till now with the origin ! The whole reason i bought an origin is to get away from high gain cascaded preamps, but i didn't want to take it quite this far. Somewhere between a JMC 800 or 900 and this was what i really wanted. So it's gonna take lot of experiments.
 
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Mark Collier

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Do you have an attenuator?

Being able to run mine at gig settings on the dial at home REALLY helps get close to the tone etc. Of course, Fletcher Munson and speaker drive makes it a bit different but still real close. Closer than not anyway.

I recommend the PS1 for (very) cheap and effective.
 

jeffb

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The biggest issue in sorting this out is theres no way to figure it out at home at the low volume thats the most i can play at. This is one of those amps thats nite and day different in how it reacts to setting and pedals etc at home vs at gig volume. I remember going thru this in the 70's before master volumes with cascaded preamps were common, and when they became common i started using them and never looked back till now with the origin ! The whole reason i bought an origin is to get away from high gain cascaded preamps, but i didn't want to take it quite this far. Somewhere between a JMC 800 or 900 and this was what i really wanted. So it's gonna take lot of experiments.

As an alternate take/flip...

Have you tried a DiMarzio FS1 in the bridge? Full up it will drive well, and roll off your guitar volume a bit and it gets very close to a typical a5 pole vintage strat pickup. One in the neck works too. And they are proper singles, not humbucking. Check out old KK Downing or James JY Young clips from the 70s. They did use boost though for leads.

If you use the quack positions. they will lose some mojo. I hate position 2 or 4 on a strat so it never bothered me. But I used the FS1 in the bridge with two low ish output a5s...mid 5s to 6k range.
 

daz

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As an alternate take/flip...

Have you tried a DiMarzio FS1 in the bridge? Full up it will drive well, and roll off your guitar volume a bit and it gets very close to a typical a5 pole vintage strat pickup. One in the neck works too. And they are proper singles, not humbucking. Check out old KK Downing or James JY Young clips from the 70s. They did use boost though for leads.

If you use the quack positions. they will lose some mojo. I hate position 2 or 4 on a strat so it never bothered me. But I used the FS1 in the bridge with two low ish output a5s...mid 5s to 6k range.

No, i use van zandts and u couldn't get me to replace those with a gun to my head. I have 2 teles too and i'm pretty pickup when it comes to getting guitars sounding the way i want to put it mildly. Put it this way.....if the pickups have to go to get a sound from an amp, the amp will go first. Anyways, the origin is not my main amp, thats a modeler who's tone i am 98% happy with and the origin was just an impulse due to wanting a lot gain marshall since before i even got into modeling. So it;s sorta my luxury aamp If it doesn'twork out i jst use the modeler that never leaves me wanting better at gigs. But it just doesn't have the low gain vintage marshall tone i like. (just wanted a bit more then the origin has)

As to the attenuator mention a post above been thinking about that. It's a possibility but have a few other ideas to try yet.
 

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