Maybe I need more clean headroom?

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by BatmansMarshall, May 15, 2020.

  1. BatmansMarshall

    BatmansMarshall Well-Known Member

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    EMG 81/85s.

    I have a 15W Marshall DSL head in my collection. These days I have been using it for the clean channel. Unfortunately no FX loop.

    I have a Two Notes Torpedo Live I am running into and using spdif into my Focusrite with Reaper as my DAW. Dry/Wet signals I can process after if needed.

    On the green channel my settings are as follows:

    P - 5
    B - 4
    M - 6
    T - 5
    V - 5
    G - 2

    I am running a Friedman BE-OD into the front. I also use a Katzenkonig (RAT/Fuzz distortion). There in an Acapulco Gold (Sunn distortion). I switch to the Marshall distortion channel at times and the settings are mostly the same EQ for more mids. So I am basically using it for all these flavors which I find meet the various tones I want for different songs.

    While I am happy with the tones and use a tubescreamer sometimes as a boost to tighten the Marshall distortion channel I am also thinking about upgrading from a 15W as I think I could maybe do with more volume on the green channel. Maybe it is me but I find that I am basically getting breakup. When I do go higher with gain and even up to 5 or more the breakup isn't necessarily what I would say is bad or obtrusive. It can be quite nice depending but I would like to also hear my setup with less gain at louder volumes. I find after 5 on volume that I start to get power tube distortion a bit. I do dial back on my pedals and my guitar volume but my plan is really to drive the front of the amp with pedals rather than driving the amp.

    Basically I think I maybe need a louder head?

    Is that a pathway? If so what head?
     
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  2. South Park

    South Park Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried lower out put pick ups . May be single coils
     
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  3. Neptical

    Neptical Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you may be after more power, and maybe power tube saturation...more oomph, which a JCM2000 DSL 100 will give you in spades, no boosts, No ODs, nothing additional. I have one and it's one of the best heads out there for the money honestly.
     
  4. coolidge56

    coolidge56 Well-Known Member Double Platinum Supporting Member

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    Marshall Major the king of headroom, done! :D But seriously I have a Fender for LOUD cleans. :hmm: Now for menacing bar fight cleans give me a 100 watt Plexi, BIG cleans.
     
  5. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    :welcome: To the forum
    Try the 40 watt DSL..
    Cheers
    Mitch
     
  6. mcblink

    mcblink Well-Known Member

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    I gave up on EMGs a few years back, but I do use a BE OD into the front end of a DSL100 green/clean just like you...

    So what you're essentially saying is that you want to be louder, but you can't get louder without getting some degree of power tube distortion, which you don't want?

    Yeah, I might think that you have found the threshold of what you want from your amp and what it's capable of. Stands to reason that with a larger amp, you could gain that volume you want, without pushing the power section to the point of distorting. If you like the DSL, there are several larger ones available. I like my 100w and it gets as loud as I want. It also doesn't need to be cranked up in order to get good tones, if I can't be really loud for some reason.

    I'm going to assume that you already tried dialing the gain knob on the amp down a little bit....
     
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  7. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    :lol::lol::lol: You overdrive the amp with a distortion pedal?
    They you say that there's not enough headroom?

    Of course there's no headroom.
    If you want headroom, turn off the distortion pedal.
     
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  8. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    Crank the master, then bring up the gain until you hit the limit of grit you want on your clean tone. If it’s not loud enough you need a bigger amp, then I recommend you increase by at least 4 times the power as doubling only gives you +3db. Doubling the number of speakers you have connected also gives you +3db (minus a bit off axis interference cancelation) Going from the 15 to 40 will help but not as much as much as the thought of “doubling” would lead you to believe. I’d say your starting point should be to test something out that is twice the power with twice the speakers (+6db) or 4 times the power on the same number of speakers also roughly +6db.
     
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  9. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    From your post, it sounds like you're using the amp primarily for recording. If that's the case, why do you need more volume (ie. headroom)? Let's say you do need more volume, without breakup. Then yes, assuming you're hitting the maximum clean headroom of your amp, the answer is always more power. You can either buy a bigger amp, or feed the line out of your Torpedo to another power amp/cab.
     
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  10. BatmansMarshall

    BatmansMarshall Well-Known Member

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    Yeah basically this really is a situation of just hitting the threshold where more volume or gain in the amp simply changes the tone through distortion. I am no longer driving the front of the amp more in this scenario. It is a 15W after all. A power amp rack would work I suppose but I might as well consider the possibility of just needing another head.

    So it seems instead of using this 15W head I should just upgrade to 100W DSL and that will give me the volumes I am looking for.

    I suppose I will keep looking at ways to get tone as loud as I can without things getting muddy.

    I am switching pickups also and I have found that I can away with a little more breakup if in the 2 and 4 positions of a 5 way switch.

    By the way has anyone here tried one of these BluGuitar AMP1s? They seem to be getting positive reviews for this sort of thing also.
     
  11. proxy

    proxy Well-Known Member

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    You need more powerful head.
    You can install a double master and use one as for boost.
    It is just 15 watt head.
     
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  12. BatmansMarshall

    BatmansMarshall Well-Known Member

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    How about a Marshall 2555X Silver Jubilee 100W?

    BTW, I probably won't have an issue with a 50W head either I would think. I usually find nearly everything I can do on 100W amps I can do on their 50W versions. I know with DSL that is the odd one out and I am only looking for a head but what about these 50W Marshall heads?

    Marshall Origin 50H Head for example?

    I suppose I am just looking for a good Marshall/Marshall type option to do what I need. The BluGuitar AMP1s has me interested also.
     
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  13. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I myself like the tones in the Origin 50H so much so that I purchased a second one.
    I do color it with the MXR10 band eq, and the SD1, but it’s a cutting tone that would be hard to bury in a mix.
    Cheers
    Mitch
     
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  14. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Here is one example of the tones that I speak of, mid power settings volume at 2-3 no amp boost gain at 7-8 mids treble at 8
    bass at 5 , presence at 8, and by rolling off volume on the guitar you can cop some late 60’s to late 70’s tones, with a bit of authority.
    Cheers
    Mitch
     
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  15. Sustainium

    Sustainium Well-Known Member

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    That’s was good Mitch, your playing always gets me rockin and a foot tappin.
     
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  16. BatmansMarshall

    BatmansMarshall Well-Known Member

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    Wow that actually sounds like a very nice head and I like how you get your tone with it.
     
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  17. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Thanks brother I appreciate your support and confidence, thank you for the compliment.
     
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  18. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Thank you, I have always thought it leaned towards old school Marshall flavor, and you really don’t need an abundance of pedals to get there.
    Thanks for the compliment.
    Cheers
    Mitch
     
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  19. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Sounds to me like you need a more powerful amp, I would guess no less than 50 watts. I think my good buddy @Mitchell Pearrow may have hit the nail on the head with the Origin50 suggestion, I've never played one but I understand they have a good amount of headroom. I see you have changed out your pickups, I was also agree with @South Park s' suggestion about lower output pickups, something like Vintage output pickups.
     
  20. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    We’ve all been here Lol! I’d suggest you watch a bunch of videoS as the Silver jub, DSL, and Origin are very different amps, both in sound and function. Sounds like you know you want more power.. just have to figure out what amp best suit your needs and function. They are all great amps in their own right.
     

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