Marshall prices US vs. Europe

Heiko Jakob

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Yeah, agreed. IDK if you're here in the states or over in EU, but that's normal for us. Each state has different tax, anywhere from 0% to almost 10%. That's why most sites calculate it at checkout: They want people to compare apples to apples when price shopping online, and only add it in at the end when they know the shipping address.
In the EU each country has it's own VAT rate, but it always the rate in the country of the seller. And advertised prices in the EU are mandated to be checkout prices including all taxes. The UK pricing is a bit odd due to brexit.

I'm guessing that the huge difference (almost 2x at Sweetwater, and just about every other site I could find in the US) is largely due to the things I mentioned (MAP, duties, tariffs, etc). It would also explain why our guitars (Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc) are so much more expensive over there.
In Germany it's more the 20% VAT that hurts ...
Fender and Gibson guitars are almost identical priced around the globe. Export price $1944 vs $1999 for a Ultra Strat is a marginal difference. But the exchange rate is 1€ = $1.20 ... So the price in € including german VAT is €1999
strat-de.PNG strat-us.PNG strat-deEUR.PNG
If that's the case though, I'm still wondering why I don't see Celestion speakers (made in England) similarly costing 1/2 as much if I buy them from Thomann?

As i said usually products are quite the same (net) price around the globe. How either Marshall, their US distributor or a cartell of GC/Sweetwater ripps of their US customers is a shame.
 

DougUSMC

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In the EU each country has it's own VAT rate, but it always the rate in the country of the seller. And advertised prices in the EU are mandated to be checkout prices including all taxes. The UK pricing is a bit odd due to brexit.
That's definitely different than here. In the US each state has a different tax rates than others (which sounds the same as your VAT differences), but the rate is based on the location of the buyer. For us it's to prevent buyers from making online purchases from other states vs. buying in their home state. While that could save buyers money, it would be at the expense of the state not being paid proper taxes. That's the main reason that online prices don't include tax when advertising: depending on where you are buying it from, the tax could be different.

In Germany it's more the 20% VAT that hurts ...
Fender and Gibson guitars are almost identical priced around the globe. Export price $1944 vs $1999 for a Ultra Strat is a marginal difference. But the exchange rate is 1€ = $1.20 ... So the price in € including german VAT is €1999

Interesting. I wonder if that's because the US has higher duties/tariff on incoming goods than Europe? It would be annoying to me to hear that I'm over paying because EU shops sell at a lower profit?

As i said usually products are quite the same (net) price around the globe. How either Marshall, their US distributor or a cartell of GC/Sweetwater ripps of their US customers is a shame.

Now I'm starting to wonder if it's a US distributor? There's no way a cartel of GC/Sweetwater could corner the market like that. It would take a hot minute before someone like me opened our own store and undercut GC and SW, and stole all their business. The only thing that would prevent that would be either the distributor refusing to sell to me, or Marshall requiring a higher MAP.

Trying to see if it's other Brit amps:
An Orange Rockerverb 100 is $2149 from SW, and $1899 on Thomann. ($250 and 13% difference)
A Vox AC30 is $1299 on SW and $869 on Thomann. ($430 and 49% difference)
The 1959HW was $3699 on SW and $1939 on Thomann. ($1760 and 90% difference)

The Marshall is far and away the biggest outlier, but the numbers are all over the place!
 

Heiko Jakob

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That's definitely different than here. In the US each state has a different tax rates than others (which sounds the same as your VAT differences), but the rate is based on the location of the buyer. For us it's to prevent buyers from making online purchases from other states vs. buying in their home state. While that could save buyers money, it would be at the expense of the state not being paid proper taxes. That's the main reason that online prices don't include tax when advertising: depending on where you are buying it from, the tax could be different.

In Europe it's on the seller, because all that online trade arose after the EU market got harmonized with competitive taxes. They wouldn't have done that back then if they had known what the internet will do for trade. Now it's too late to get 26 states to agree on changing it.

Interesting. I wonder if that's because the US has higher duties/tariff on incoming goods than Europe? It would be annoying to me to hear that I'm over paying because EU shops sell at a lower profit?
The EU has no import tariff on amps, but 3.2% on guitars
Guitars -> TARIC 9202903000 -> 3.2%
Amps -> TARIC 8518500090 -> 0%
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

For the US tariffs i wasn't able to interpret the meaning of 'Column 2' tariffs. I'm too dumb for US gov stuff.
https://hts.usitc.gov/

*UPDATE*
I found another US customs database that is actual usable. 'Column 2' refers to non-NTR countries. Namely: Cuba and North Korea.


So US import tariffs on amps is 0%
https://dataweb.usitc.gov/tariff/database/details/85185000

Guitars are 8.7% import tariff
https://dataweb.usitc.gov/tariff/database/details/92029040

Trying to see if it's other Brit amps:
An Orange Rockerverb 100 is $2149 from SW, and $1899 on Thomann. ($250 and 13% difference)
A Vox AC30 is $1299 on SW and $869 on Thomann. ($430 and 49% difference)
The 1959HW was $3699 on SW and $1939 on Thomann. ($1760 and 90% difference)

The Marshall is far and away the biggest outlier, but the numbers are all over the place!
Somebody on the US market is making a fortune on guitar players.
 
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BlueX

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Trying to see if it's other Brit amps:
An Orange Rockerverb 100 is $2149 from SW, and $1899 on Thomann. ($250 and 13% difference)
A Vox AC30 is $1299 on SW and $869 on Thomann. ($430 and 49% difference)
The 1959HW was $3699 on SW and $1939 on Thomann. ($1760 and 90% difference)

The Marshall is far and away the biggest outlier, but the numbers are all over the place!

Maybe assumed price sensitivity. 1959HW might be seen as a high end product, that can carry the mark-up.
 

Heiko Jakob

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Maybe assumed price sensitivity. 1959HW might be seen as a high end product, that can carry the mark-up.
But a 90% upcharge you can avoid with a new power cord, a dime to turn the voltage selector and two fuses you can buy for a quarter ?
 

BlueX

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But a 90% upcharge you can avoid with a new power cord, a dime to turn the voltage selector and two fuses you can buy for a quarter ?

I fully agree with you, but it seems like it has been possible so far. I can't tell how many 1959HW they've sold at this price, though.

I also live in Europe, and benefit in full from our open, common market.
 

Adieu

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I think the USA is teetering on the edge of hyper inflation. Printing endless amounts of money has it's side effects. In the history of the world every fiat currency has failed, 100%, and the US dollar is fiat.

In the long-term history of the world, everything has failed, period.

The cradle of civilization is infested with ISIS and its ilk. Rome got hijacked by Christians. The Chinese Empire got taken over by communists. Etc.
 

playloud

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I think the USA is teetering on the edge of hyper inflation. Printing endless amounts of money has it's side effects. In the history of the world every fiat currency has failed, 100%, and the US dollar is fiat.

"Hyperinflation" is typically defined as a 50% monthly increase in prices (over a period of time). The monthly CPI increase in September was 0.5%. Want to bet a 1959HW* that we don't see hyperinflation in the next 12 months?

*Let's not make it USD to keep it fair - you wouldn't really be able to win otherwise!
 

DougUSMC

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In Europe it's on the seller, because all that online trade arose after the EU market got harmonized with competitive taxes. They wouldn't have done that back then if they had known what the internet will do for trade. Now it's too late to get 26 states to agree on changing it.

Yeah, same here with our 50 states. That's why it was up to the Federal government to make the law that all 50 had to abide by. I have to be honest and admit that I don't know enough about the EU to know if you have something similar, so I did some google-fu. It didn't clarify much, except to hint that what we're talking about was a contributing factor to Brexit...

The EU has no import tariff on amps, but 3.2% on guitars
Guitars -> TARIC 9202903000 -> 3.2%
Amps -> TARIC 8518500090 -> 0%
...
Somebody on the US market is making a fortune on guitar players.

Wow, you did significantly more/better research than I did. That was super useful, thanks! I do agree that someone is making a killing on us though!

Maybe assumed price sensitivity. 1959HW might be seen as a high end product, that can carry the mark-up.
The 1959 is definitely seen as high end over here, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, Marshall as a brand is seen as "my dad's amp", and not in high demand. I asked a guy at my local guitar shop why they didn't have any large Marshall heads, and he said they just don't sell. The smaller combos can lose out to cheap competitors like Boss and Peavy, and the larger heads just don't see the same demand that they used to see. Most new players "keep it in the box" (plugins) or use emulators now.

But a 90% upcharge you can avoid with a new power cord, a dime to turn the voltage selector and two fuses you can buy for a quarter ?

I can't speak for others, but this thread was an eye opener for me. I had NO idea how different things were! I suspected a bit of an upcharge to get it here, but no where near what it was. I've been reading this forum for a LONG time, but only doing homework/research. I finally created an account a few months ago because I wanted to ask a question, but couldn't get the password reset to work. I came here a few days ago, looking for a couple of decent places to shop for an older Super Lead, and found this thread. I'd say that within 10 mins of finding the thread I'd ordered the 1959, fixed my password issue, and made my first post. If you'd seen me ordering, I was like a kid expecting to get caught with his hand in a cookie jar. I *really* thought I'd found some loophole that was going to be closed.
I'm speaking for myself, but I'd put money on the fact that the VAST majority of players out there don't know this is possible...

In the long-term history of the world, everything has failed, period.

The cradle of civilization is infested with ISIS and its ilk. Rome got hijacked by Christians. The Chinese Empire got taken over by communists. Etc.

Hey, I'm Doug, the new guy. I take it you're the upbeat welcome community of the forum? :D
 

Heiko Jakob

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Yeah, everything is insane lately. Stupid shipping containers!

BTW, UPS says my Thomann amp should be delivered today!
Your amp won't have seen a shipping container. They've sent it per air freight. A shipping container takes about 2 weeks over the pond.
 

DougUSMC

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Your amp won't have seen a shipping container. They've sent it per air freight. A shipping container takes about 2 weeks over the pond.

Yeah, I dig it. I just meant that many consumer items are currently delayed coming to the States, because of the huge mess that is the CA ports.
 

DougUSMC

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I guess you're checking the UPD tracker at least twice an hour, right?

I was, now I'm dying a bit inside.

Here's the "best" picture:
Oyi5Iap.jpg


This is the rest of the view:

iR5oA9H.jpg

bTYfdww.jpg

qgDa8Cd.jpg


No joking around here, that's how it showed up. It was actually leaning upright against my garage door. I brought it in (rattling all the way), and just took a bunch of pics. I tried to message Thomann, but they're closed for the day due to the huge time difference.
Right now, I refuse to even open it. I have no doubt that UPS did this to it, or that it's likely trashed. I'm waiting until I can talk to Thomann to see what they want me to do with it.
Talk about frustrating?!?!
 

tce63

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I was, now I'm dying a bit inside.

Here's the "best" picture:
Oyi5Iap.jpg


This is the rest of the view:

iR5oA9H.jpg

bTYfdww.jpg

qgDa8Cd.jpg


No joking around here, that's how it showed up. It was actually leaning upright against my garage door. I brought it in (rattling all the way), and just took a bunch of pics. I tried to message Thomann, but they're closed for the day due to the huge time difference.
Right now, I refuse to even open it. I have no doubt that UPS did this to it, or that it's likely trashed. I'm waiting until I can talk to Thomann to see what they want me to do with it.
Talk about frustrating?!?!

WTF, So sorry for you.

Thomann have great support and will help you out, no worries.
 

DougUSMC

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Ridiculous, right?

I've heard only good things about Thomann, but I'm still not bold enough to open the box w/o talking to them first. I don't want *any* room for the thought that I'm in any way responsible. I'm going to IM Thomann in the morning, and see what they tell me to do. At this point I only know that it's severely crushed and taped back together. When I pick it up, I can hear lots of things rattling and rolling around inside. Such a shame, for an incredible amp.

Anyone want to start a pool on what Thomann tells me to do? My guess is "Bring it right back to a UPS store and file a claim. They'll send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.".
If I had my druthers, it would be to file the claim then "throw it out, we'll send you a new one once UPS resolves the case". Then I see what I can do w/a "mostly demolished refurb".
 


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