Marshall JCM 800 2203X

[maxime1122]

I played tonight at home with my brand new JCM 800 2203X and my original JCM 2203 (1983) with stereo delay, etc... It was maybe too loud?!

I replaced all the tube for Ruby EL34BHT and 12AX7 HG for my new 2203X... Since that all my amps have those tubes.

I was wondering who is making the "Marshall" tube these days.

Rock On!

 

[diesect20022000]

mine were shuguang and Svetlana =C='s. That was in my 2009 DSL100.

 

[eddiegj]

I played tonight at home with my brand new JCM 800 2203X and my original JCM 2203 (1983) with stereo delay, etc... It was maybe too loud?!

I replaced all the tube for Ruby EL34BHT and 12AX7 HG for my new 2203X... Since that all my amps have those tubes.

I was wondering who is making the "Marshall" tube these days.

Rock On!

I seriously considering getting a 2203x. What do you think about the that head compared to the original? Tone, difference's is what I am after.

 

[plexilespaul]

well i played a jcm 800 reissue yesterday at a shop near by and i have a jcm 800 single channel from 82 at home and to me there is a difference.
Maybe it's the tubes that came with the amp but to me the main difference that stood out loud , because that reissue captures the essence of the 800 and it sounds good to me, is that it is a bit less crunchy and "throaty" (if that makes any sence) than an old 800. The middle was a bit less musical than an old 800...well to my ear.
cheers

 

[eddiegj]

well i played a jcm 800 reissue yesterday at a shop near by and i have a jcm 800 single channel from 82 at home and to me there is a difference.
Maybe it's the tubes that came with the amp but to me the main difference that stood out loud , because that reissue captures the essence of the 800 and it sounds good to me, is that it is a bit less crunchy and "throaty" (if that makes any sence) than an old 800. The middle was a bit less musical than an old 800...well to my ear.
cheers

Thanks for the reply. I had a jmp 2203 I purchased new in a local shop in 82. I never asked or found out what year it was made. What a sweet sounding amp that was. I was always trying to get more crunch out of it but just learned that the sound it had was all I needed. I probably would be disappointed with the 2203x. Now looking for a good used 80's model.

 

[lespaul339]

well i played a jcm 800 reissue yesterday at a shop near by and i have a jcm 800 single channel from 82 at home and to me there is a difference.
Maybe it's the tubes that came with the amp but to me the main difference that stood out loud , because that reissue captures the essence of the 800 and it sounds good to me, is that it is a bit less crunchy and "throaty" (if that makes any sence) than an old 800. The middle was a bit less musical than an old 800...well to my ear.
cheers

Not trying to single you out, but I see people saying comparisons like this all the time, and while that is your experience with it, it might not necessarily be a fair comparison. I think you really can't judge an amp in the shop compared to your amp because you don't know if the amp in the shop is biased correctly. I know when I got my Marshall, it was biased very cold from the factory. Like you said in your post, it could have been the difference in tubes. The only way to judge amp to amp, is to put the same make of tubes in it, and make sure the bias is set at the same percentage. But even that isn't 100% as a tubes tone can vary from tube to tube within the same brand. I'm talking about preamp tubes, but powertubes can make a difference in tone as well. But that would still be a more fair comparison than comparing a amp with factory tubes against your own. Again, not singling you out, because you did mention some of my points in your post. Just stating this so eddiegj can see that it is definitely worth checking out the reissues also.

 

[plexilespaul]

Not trying to single you out, but I see people saying comparisons like this all the time, and while that is your experience with it, it might not necessarily be a fair comparison. I think you really can't judge an amp in the shop compared to your amp because you don't know if the amp in the shop is biased correctly. I know when I got my Marshall, it was biased very cold from the factory. Like you said in your post, it could have been the difference in tubes. The only way to judge amp to amp, is to put the same make of tubes in it, and make sure the bias is set at the same percentage. But even that isn't 100% as a tubes tone can vary from tube to tube within the same brand. I'm talking about preamp tubes, but powertubes can make a difference in tone as well. But that would still be a more fair comparison than comparing a amp with factory tubes against your own. Again, not singling you out, because you did mention some of my points in your post. Just stating this so eddiegj can see that it is definitely worth checking out the reissues also.

eddiegj should try the amp out if he can that's a number one rule. I agree with you that tubes, speakers heck even cables make a difference and i should point out as i did in my original post that i really like the amp and i think marshall did a great job with the 800 reissue. that said i have to point out that i felt the difference was more of the nature of the amp but maybe i am wrong... maybe someone who ownes both should join in.
cheers

 

[demonufo]

Not trying to single you out, but I see people saying comparisons like this all the time, and while that is your experience with it, it might not necessarily be a fair comparison. I think you really can't judge an amp in the shop compared to your amp because you don't know if the amp in the shop is biased correctly. I know when I got my Marshall, it was biased very cold from the factory. Like you said in your post, it could have been the difference in tubes. The only way to judge amp to amp, is to put the same make of tubes in it, and make sure the bias is set at the same percentage. But even that isn't 100% as a tubes tone can vary from tube to tube within the same brand. I'm talking about preamp tubes, but powertubes can make a difference in tone as well. But that would still be a more fair comparison than comparing a amp with factory tubes against your own. Again, not singling you out, because you did mention some of my points in your post. Just stating this so eddiegj can see that it is definitely worth checking out the reissues also.

Well I for one HAVE compared side by side early JCM800 series 2203's with 2203x's, biased the same, both using JJ's in the pre-amp and winged C's in the power amp (and considering I personally had serviced and biased both, I knew darned well they were both equal in that respect) and there most certainly IS a distinct difference.

Just having that FX loop alone in the signal chain (not a particularly great loop by any stretch of the imagination) pulls the tone down a notch or two (I have removed one from a 2203x for a customer which verified this), and the transformers are certainly NOT up to the quality of the original amps.

Whilst the re-issues are certainly not bad amps, they are not as good as the originals (properly maintained, that is), however much modern amp owners would like them to be.

 

[maxime1122]

eddiegj should try the amp out if he can that's a number one rule. I agree with you that tubes, speakers heck even cables make a difference and i should point out as i did in my original post that i really like the amp and i think marshall did a great job with the 800 reissue. that said i have to point out that i felt the difference was more of the nature of the amp but maybe i am wrong... maybe someone who ownes both should join in.
cheers

I'm the one who started this thread...
I currently own both. An early 2203 (1983) and a brand new 2203X (special order in the box). All my JCM 800 have Ruby EL34BHT and Ruby 12AX7C5 preamp tubes in them, even my brand new 2203X.

So, I think that I can do a pretty much fair comparaison between those two heads!
I found that the original 2203 is more grainy, a bit less gain, a bit darker.
I found that the reissue 2203 has a bit more gain, a bit more treble, a bit more hiss (it seems to be related to the quantity of gain?).

They are very close each others... They all sound great, definitly JCM 800!
If you want a NEW 2203 with effect loop, you may consider getting a 2203X.

In my case, when I run them in stereo... They are completing each others.

But, my original question was : Who is making the "Marshall" tubes these days?

Thanks,

 

[plexilespaul]

I found that the original 2203 is more grainy

what does that mean??

 

[demonufo]

I found that the original 2203 is more grainy, a bit less gain, a bit darker.
I found that the reissue 2203 has a bit more gain, a bit more treble, a bit more hiss (it seems to be related to the quantity of gain?).

It probably will be very related to the quantity of gain. It is probably more gainy and trebly and hissy because of a treble bypass cap (either on V1a cathode or one of the treble peaking caps). These caps allow more (or less depending on which way the value is) treble through in the gain stages, which will specifically increase the gain in the treble part of the tonal range (and mids, even possibly bass too depending on the value of the cap) which will increase all three (hiss, gain and treble) simultaneously.
Hmm, not a very good description, but that's just me all over.

 

[Marshallmadness]

I have a 2203zw, played a 2203x, a jcm800 2203, and a jmp2203. I think it comes down ultimately to how the amp is set up with tubes, bias, transformers, etc. Another big overlooked factor is drifting values of parts due to age. So originals will almost always have some difference. Honestly I liked mine better than some of the originals once it was properly set up. It seemed a little tighter and aggressive. The effect loop switch positions of the reissues will make a difference in hiss too.

 

[Salsg]

+1 on testing it and not being an all things equal comparison at a shop. For one difference can be tubes and bias, already spoken about , but cab and speakers, likely not broken in yet, plus guitars if you just pick one up at the shop. Instruments become personal and familiar to each individual.
My experience playing an 83 2203 at a shop frankly left me underwhelmed, and I wouldn't trade my JVM nor 6100 for it because in my setup at home both amps sound far better
I know current Marshall tubes use JJ, shuguang, for preamp, and also shuguang for Kt66 and winged C for el34, at least that's what were in the VM and JVM I purchased, not bad tubes.

 

[TubesDirect]

The tubes that Marshall stocks is their amps are supplied to them by PM Components in the U.K. These consist of Premium power tubes manufactured in the original Svetlana factory in St. Petersburg, Russia, as well as a whole line of PM Guitar Tubes exclusively made for PM in China. They are designed by PM Components, & unlike any of the other Chinese tubes. Also, their testing & matching procedures are second to none. All their preamp tubes are matched dual triodes. (Any other company who does this matching charges extra for it.) Their power tubes are matched according to how much each tube will degrade over time, so they stay matched thoughout their lifespan. Other companies quickly test & match tubes, but after some use, the tubes begin to drift & are no longer matched. PM Guitar Tubes are truly advanced & known for their consistency & reliability. They are definitely the best sounding tubes available today.
PM components has now made these tubes available as an aftermarket replacement, & are now available in the U.S. Please let us know if you have any other questions about them.

 

[JayCM800]

$472!!!

PM-KT88-QUAD PREMIUM - PM PREMIUM by TubesDirect.com

Where's the "unlike" button when you need one?!

 

[Crunchcity]

Pricey

 

[TubesDirect]

The Premium line of PM Guitar Tubes are made in the Original Svetlana Factory in St. Petersburg, Russia. These are known to be the best sounding power tubes available. Combined with the superior testing & matching of PM Components, they really are the best!, & the most consistent & reliable. These are tubes you can trust on tour. They won't let you down. Tubes made at Svetlana are all expensive, however, many of the "winged-c's" on the market are factory seconds. With PM, there are NO FACTORY SECONDS. Svetlana just re-tooled their original factory, so the prices have gone up for anyone who sells tubes made at Svetlana. *Beware that new tubes that are called "Svetlana" are NOT the same. They are made somewhere else, they just own the name*. You get what you pay for; if you buy cheep tubes, your amp will sound cheap & not up to it's potential (of course, you should ALWAYS have your amp biased by a qualified amp tech when replacing power tubes to work properly). Also, the Chinese PM's are all exclusive designs not available to anyone else! The prices of these are comparable to other tubes on the market, but the quality & consistency is much better. Everyone who has tried them loves them! The PM-12AX7HG is a revolutionary High Gain tube unlike any other. Try some PM Guitar Tubes today & you'll be glad you did. Your ears will thank you. That's why they are the tube of choice for Marshall Amplification.

 

[plexilespaul]

well i played a jcm 800 reissue yesterday at a shop near by and i have a jcm 800 single channel from 82 at home and to me there is a difference.
Maybe it's the tubes that came with the amp but to me the main difference that stood out loud , because that reissue captures the essence of the 800 and it sounds good to me, is that it is a bit less crunchy and "throaty" (if that makes any sence) than an old 800. The middle was a bit less musical than an old 800...well to my ear.
cheers

well i have to edit my original post since i brought my amp to the shop with my cab and the same guitar cable and the same guitar and again made the comparison and holy shit they have very very similiar tone...i totally shooked up....
so i got me a jcm 800 reissue
well done marshall