Marshall 4x12 all original 1971 or swapped speakers?

Discussion in 'Let's Talk Vintage' started by Goldtop916, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Goldtop916

    Goldtop916 Member

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    I put this Cab for sale and I was sure it was full original...as I have many cabs it seems that I mixed up with my memory
    I received a feedback from a potential buyer that speakers might have been swapped with earlier T1511 from 1971.
    Reason are plastic corner, checkerboard and plastic handles

    4x CĂ©lestion T1511
    G12M, 25w, 16 ohms, 55Hz
    All date code KD18 with all cones 102 14

    Stickers says 75Hz but it seems these are real 55Hz

    I don't want to lie or to steal someone so do you think that there is a chance that it's all original?

    In any case, i didn't put any price yet.
    Is 1500 Euros a good average price for it or I'm too optimistic?
     

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  2. BygoneTones

    BygoneTones Well-Known Member

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    My guess would be that cab is from 1974 and has replaced speakers. The main indicator of 74 is the actual black tolex and the slot head screws in the baffle. But also they were using screws in the corner protectors for a few years before they started using rivets. Smaller soundposts are also later than 71.
     
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  3. Midnight Blues

    Midnight Blues Well-Known Member

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    I had an early '70s cab similar to your's, but with metal handles. If I remember correctly, the checkerboard cabs (before they were labeled 1960AX/AB) came with "vintage" greenbacks, along with metal handles. The plastic handles weren't introduced until '73/'74 I think?
     
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  4. Goldtop916

    Goldtop916 Member

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    Thank you BygoneTones and Midnight Blues, so it's confirmed that it's not 100% original.
    I will update my ad with the information that speakers have been swapped

    Any idea of a possible resale value with speakers fully working?
    Am I right to expect 1500 Euros or it's too much?
     
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  5. Midnight Blues

    Midnight Blues Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome Gt.

    I double checked my "The History Of Marshall" book. They actually refer to the speakers as "Classic 25 Greenbacks", which is what you have isn't it?

    Also, the metal handles were replaced with plastic "around 1972 or 1973."

    My apologies for having a poor memory.

    Do you have the S/N? If so, you can contact Marshall and they might (should be) able to tell you the year the cabinet was built.

    I wish I could help with respect to the value and I know the first link is not the greatest, but these might give you an idea even though they're in USD (no affiliation). Of course, as "they" say, "it's worth what someone will pay for it."

    https://reverb.com/item/30950988-fa...binet-with-original-celestions-and-slip-cover

    https://reverb.com/item/33213186-marshall-1960a-4x12-slant-cabinet-1975

    https://reverb.com/item/6601877-marshall-1960-4x12-slant-cabinet-w-black-back-25-s-1975

    https://reverb.com/item/33211955-marshall-1960a-4x12-bottom-cabinet-1978


    Good luck and :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  6. neikeel

    neikeel Well-Known Member

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    I hope you get a decent price, those speakers are very good for most genres of music with a JMP50.
     
  7. BygoneTones

    BygoneTones Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would split the speakers from the cab and sell them separately, whilst they are not a match. As for values, check reverb and ebay, I have been out of the loop too long. However if you are asking high prices for your speakers I think it is really important to check them properly.

    Fwiw the metal handles seem to come in around late 71. Cabs with Aug 71 date codes on the speakers tend to have the plastic handles rather than metal.
     
  8. soundboy57

    soundboy57 Well-Known Member

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    The large rivets on the corners, along with the serial tag style, indicate closer to late '74 or '75, even. It would have had creambacks or blackbacks, IME.
    Yes, the speakers are from a late '71 cab, with plastic handles. I have had all of these years, and was obsessed
    with all of these changes for a long time :)
    As Bygone has pointed out before, in other posts, the speakers tend to be dated in groups....I have seen a LOT of "DD" and "KD" speakers, and the cabs with "DD" dates would have basketweave, metal handles, and particle backs. The "KD" dates, from my experience, were the cutoff time frame for plastic to metal handles. I had one cab that was cut out for metal handles, yet had riveted plastic installed, with JD and KD dates. Yes, there are dates in between, but you just don't seem to see them, not sure why. Bygone has probably seen more than I have.

    I also think that it was during the move from one factory to another by Celestion,("pre Rola"to "Rola" time frame) that these gaps in speaker dates occurred. Again, I remember Bygone stating something to that effect years ago...he will correct if wrong.. I have never seen a "ED" or "FD" or "GD". for early 71.

    I would sell the speakers seperately, although they are safer to transport inside of a cab.
    GREAT sounding speakers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  9. Ned B

    Ned B Active Member

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    I have a couple of BW DD 1281 bottoms with particle backs. One with screwed in metal handles, the other with riveted metal handles.
     

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