Marshall 1987 vs. 2204 for vintage AC/DC (Angus) tone?

[Doctor_Zoidberg]

More to it than equipment.

There's a lot more to it than equipment...
OK, here's a video of Angus playing an SG Junior with a P90 pickup playing at what can only be considered "bedroom volume".
He isn't using an SG Std with HB's or a Marshall stack at full tilt and the sound and feel is still unmistakably Angus Young.
What you need to realise is that it is far more complex than using the exact guitar and the exact amp and settings to produce "that sound", it has as much to do with how the person actually plays than the equipment used.

Here's a vid of an interview with Angus.
Angus Young Interview - Video

Doc Z

 

[MisterScary]

Re: More to it than equipment.

There's a lot more to it than equipment...
OK, here's a video of Angus playing an SG Junior with a P90 pickup playing at what can only be considered "bedroom volume".
He isn't using an SG Std with HB's or a Marshall stack at full tilt and the sound and feel is still unmistakably Angus Young.
What you need to realise is that it is far more complex than using the exact guitar and the exact amp and settings to produce "that sound", it has as much to do with how the person actually plays than the equipment used.

Here's a vid of an interview with Angus.
Angus Young Interview - Video

Doc Z

I completely agree. I'm not trying to be Angus Young, I just like the tone of his gear. I certainly can't play "exactly" like Angus, but with the same or similar equipment, I can reproduce the tone, which is what I am chasing.

Thanks for the link to the vid. I've seen it before. I've also seen Angus play Telecasters, ES335's, and Orange amps - he still sounds like Angus because of his wide vibrato, picking style, etc.

However, if sounding "like Angus" inspires me to play more, then I think that's a good thing.

 

[Bieling3]

Awesome vid, Doc Z. Thank's for the find!

 

[MartyStrat54]

I dig the stuffin' out of AC/DC. Either version, although I liked Bon Scott for his stage presence. His vocals were unusual a well.

I'm getting my 2204 supposedly by Fed-Ex tomorrow. I think it will do AC/DC.

 

[reemaada]

I was blasting away at Highway to Hell today, and except for the shitty playing...the tone was there!!!!!

 

[RickyLee]

I think one of the main reasons that you will find a bit of tone variance between the late 70's JMP's Master Volume & four input/two channel 1987/1959, 2204/2203 vs. the JCM800 models 2204/2203, 1987/1959 is due to the power transformer secondary voltages.

I have verified this slight difference within just the early 80's JCM800 2204's which I have three of them from '82, '83 and '84. What I found is that my '82 sounds quite a bit different than the other two because it's power transformer secondary voltage is A LOT lower. My '82 has new filter caps that were installed less than a year ago so it is good to go. This '82 has a B+ just over 400V while the '83 and '84 are at the more common 465V and up.

Looking at the JCM800 power amp schematics from 1981, they show an aprox. power tube plate voltage of 365V. And I have read info on the net where people's late 70's JMP's had varied B+ as well - less than 400V.

I did have a chance to AB a 1980 JMP 2204 against my 1983 2204 using the same speaker cab. The owner of the rehearsal studio where my band was practicing pulled it out of a storage closet and wanted me to try it out. The JMP had old RCA EL34 tubes in it - don't know what the preamp tubes were though. While my amp had new production GT EL34M's. I have to say, that the two amps had an identical tone, but then had a different flavor all at the same time. Hard to put into words. This '80 JMP might have had a few tweaks and mods in her though, as the Dirt would get into crunch just a bit earlier than my '83 2204. The owner said he thought this JMP might have been tweaked a bit back in the early 90's. Then you have to factor in different tubes, and wishing I knew what voltages that JMP had in her as well?? Plus my 2204 had a new aftermarket power transformer installed in her that ran a high 480V plus on the power tube plates. I did try to talk this guy into selling his JMP but he was not interested.

 

[MartyStrat54]

That's interesting stuff. Yes transformers play a big role in the sound of an amp. I believe Jon said my 2204 was around 435. These lower voltage amps, especially EL34 amps, are sweeter sounding IMO. If you truly understand how a valve works and the correlation between the plate and the screen, you will see that amps running at or above the tube's specifications will sound different.

Right now, most tube manufacturer's are building amps with a max B+ of 425V. This is to compensate for the quality of current production tubes.

 

[Doctor_Zoidberg]

Awesome vid, Doc Z. Thank's for the find!

Many thanks, you're very welcome.

It's not AC/DC but...
This isn't bad either if you are looking to reproduce AC/DC tones... Shoot to Thrill to be exact.
As well as using vintage stuff he does also use a new Angus Young Sig guitar (along with a Gretsch) and a small Marshall Valvestate amp.
Worth a watch and maybe get a few pointers if you're tone hunting.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LMljLcN8Vg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LMljLcN8Vg[/ame]

Cheers
Doc Z.

 

[MartyStrat54]

I bought a Chet Atkins Gretsch guitar in 1974 and it was expensive. I decided it wasn't the image I wanted and I took a beating on it trading it for a Les Paul. Now I see where that model is fetching $20,000 in very good condition. Maybe I should have just put it in the closet for safekeeping.

 

[Trick]

Wow! i wish I could have seen them with Bon Scott!

Day On The Green, Oakland Ca, 1979-80? Before Highway came out! I got knocked down by the crew as Angus road the back of Bon thru the crowd! They were so close to me I got a bunch of sweat dropped on me, What more can a teenage Rock N Roll boy ask for! They Kicked Ass! I remember hearing Highway To Hell and a few others before the record hit the shelves and the radio! those WERE the days! Thanks for the Memories!

 

[RickyLee]

Day On The Green, Oakland Ca, 1979-80? Before Highway came out! I got knocked down by the crew as Angus road the back of Bon thru the crowd! They were so close to me I got a bunch of sweat dropped on me, What more can a teenage Rock N Roll boy ask for! They Kicked Ass! I remember hearing Highway To Hell and a few others before the record hit the shelves and the radio! those WERE the days! Thanks for the Memories!

Awesome experience!! Ah, 1979, 1980 . . . I remember hearing "Highway" for the first time on a huge stereo system and just barely a teenager then. Was hanging out with my cool older Uncle. We were at this friend of my Uncle's, and this guy just had this insane sound system - and sooo many vinyl albums. Hearing the "Highway" album, the opening lone guitar comes in. Then the drums with that punchy kick drum, even more so hearing it so loud and clean sounding, just grabbed me ( I was just learning drums then - had not taken up guitar as yet ).

You just can not write a better Rock song than that.

But then, those Boys kept on writing more of those Classics!


You guys have given me an idea for a new thread here . . .

 

[MisterScary]

I'm jealous that you guys got to see AC/DC with Bon... before they were huge! I didn't get to see the band until the early 80's. I remember seeing them on the For Those About to Rock (aka Cannon and Bell) Tour from the 3rd row in the Boston Garden. I was deaf for a long time afterward and remember the smell of the powder flying from the cannons! They were and always will be my favorite live band!

 

[Doctor_Zoidberg]

Never saw 'em with Bon... seen them twice with Brian though, Ballbreaker and Black Ice tours.

Another excellent live band in the same vein (and they openly admit that AC/DC are their biggest influence) are Airborne, another rock band from Australia, and some of their tracks could quite easily be AC/DC numbers.

If you get the chance to see them live it is well worth it.

cheers
Doc Z

 

[MisterScary]

Never saw 'em with Bon... seen them twice with Brian though, Ballbreaker and Black Ice tours.

Another excellent live band in the same vein (and they openly admit that AC/DC are their biggest influence) are Airborne, another rock band from Australia, and some of their tracks could quite easily be AC/DC numbers.

If you get the chance to see them live it is well worth it.

cheers
Doc Z

I haven't heard of them but will definitely check them out.

 

[Doctor_Zoidberg]

I haven't heard of them but will definitely check them out.

Check these out... you may like 'em.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uANVBPVaf-g&feature=channel]YouTube - AIRBOURNE - Too Much, Too Young, Too Fast[/ame]


Excuse the crappy sound quality on this one... but that's Youtube for you
And yes... it is Lemmy driving the truck.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T6e_mk0O24]YouTube - AIRBOURNE - Runnin' Wild / feat. Lemmy[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVvau5KrtQ]YouTube - Airbourne @ Wacken 2008 What's Eating You Proshot[/ame]

Enjoy
Doc Z.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Yeah, I've seen these guys. They do have the taste of AC/DC to their sound, but they don't have the overall material. AC/DC albums (CD's) were ballbusters. Every song rocked the house. Airbourne has a "few" hits and right now I don't see them winning over the American Rock market. Not saying they are bad, they just aren't AC/DC.

 

[core]

I like these guys! First time hearing them.

 

[MisterScary]

Yeah, they definitely sound like AC/DC. I kinda dig 'em. Thanks for posting the vids.

 

[LPMarshall hack]

Even though they sound like AC/DC, it is so refreshing to see a straight up, guitar driven ROCK N ROLL band instead of that crap they pass off as rock music nowadays.

 

[ironlung40]

Check these out... you may like 'em.

YouTube - AIRBOURNE - Too Much, Too Young, Too Fast


Excuse the crappy sound quality on this one... but that's Youtube for you
And yes... it is Lemmy driving the truck.
YouTube - AIRBOURNE - Runnin' Wild / feat. Lemmy

YouTube - Airbourne @ Wacken 2008 What's Eating You Proshot

Enjoy
Doc Z.

to me they seem to be absolutely ripping AC/DC off. Not saying it's good or bad, but just the taste I get from them. They do sound good though.