Leave good enough alone?

[GrindingMetal7]

Does anyone know if the tubes for the pre amp and power section of the dsl40cr are upgradable?
As most may already know the pre amp comes with 4 ECC84'S And the power section 2 EL84's.
Was thinking somewhere down the road I'd like to hot rod my dsl40 to sound a bit meaner, a little heavier. Thought I read somewhere on this forum that I could but, can't find the post.

I use an Ibanez tube screamer to scoop or boost the lower end and I have a Boss GE-7 band EQ though I can't seem to get the sound I want with it and removed it from the FX loop. Should I even attempt to go down that rabbit hole, or continue to experiment with what I got?

 

[Tatzmann]

Plug your guitar straight in.

This will bring back the lower mids,
which are the "mean" frequencies.

 

[Steve Smith]

Plug your guitar straight in.

This will bring back the lower mids,
which are the "mean" frequencies.

I upgraded my valves on my 76 JMP 100 to Groove Tubes around 1988 but I did not notice that much better tone or performance. I think just maintain the amp properly. Use different cabs, try a 10 + 12 + 15 combo. My JMP is so toppy. Hendrix used a bass amp. Use a good overdrive pedal with a vintage amp. Use a clean pickup whether single coil or humbucker. Clean power is what you need. The amp and the pedal will provide the overdrive.

 

[V-man]

a YT personality said it in his video: Tubes aren’t EQs. If you are unable to dial what you want on the amp’s EQ and/or the Eq pedal, NFW are you going to get there with tubes.

The easier thing to do is dial the amp itself as acceptably as you can and compare with the EQ in front (since you are going nowhere with it in the FX loop- or try anew if the straight-in/EQ in front fails).

The more expensive proposition is try different speakers.

 

[Steve Smith]

Does anyone know if the tubes for the pre amp and power section of the dsl40cr are upgradable?
As most may already know the pre amp comes with 4 ECC84'S And the power section 2 EL84's.
Was thinking somewhere down the road I'd like to hot rod my dsl40 to sound a bit meaner, a little heavier. Thought I read somewhere on this forum that I could but, can't find the post.

I use an Ibanez tube screamer to scoop or boost the lower end and I have a Boss GE-7 band EQ though I can't seem to get the sound I want with it and removed it from the FX loop. Should I even attempt to go down that rabbit hole, or continue to experiment with what I got?

Look mate, I really dont mean to be funny here. You can explore all of the options for studio work. Sorry just get an old JMP with a 4x12 a tube screamer, chorus pedal and a Dunlop wah. Dump an Invador into the bridge of your strat. Thats all you ever need man!!! Dont fart about with it for live work, just keep it simple. You can get all technical in the studio. KR's mate..

a YT personality said it in his video: Tubes aren’t EQs. If you are unable to dial what you want on the amp’s EQ and/or the Eq pedal, NFW are you going to get there with tubes.

The easier thing to do is dial the amp itself as acceptably as you can and compare with the EQ in front (since you are going nowhere with it in the FX loop- or try anew if the straight-in/EQ in front fails).

The more expensive proposition is try different speakers.

I have played guitar for 45 years at the age of 57 and I have never really understood the point of an effects loop.. I suppose it balances things and well no.. its a technical thing that is waste of time in a live situation... you balance your eq and your levels with your ears and musical ability

 

[Jethro Rocker]

a YT personality said it in his video: Tubes aren’t EQs. If you are unable to dial what you want on the amp’s EQ and/or the Eq pedal, NFW are you going to get there with tubes.

The easier thing to do is dial the amp itself as acceptably as you can and compare with the EQ in front (since you are going nowhere with it in the FX loop- or try anew if the straight-in/EQ in front fails).

The more expensive proposition is try different speakers.

Yes agreed! If that still won't do it go down the expensive speaker route and possibly different positioning in room.
Past that perhaps it isn't the right amp for you. I cannot imagine why you can't get a heavy enough tone with a DSL40 with a TS up front and EQ in the loop to boot.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

at the age of 57 and I have never really understood the point of an effects loop.. I suppose it balances things and well no.. its a technical thing that is waste of time in a live situation... you balance your eq and your levels with your ears and musical ability

Too many effects out front can muddy things up and time effects seem easier to set in loop. Also Graphic EQ in loop which makes an excellent solo boost works way better in loop for that and less muddy.
Live.

 

[Steve Smith]

Too many effects out front can muddy things up and time effects seem easier to set in loop. Also Graphic EQ in loop which makes an excellent solo boost works way better in loop for that and less muddy.
Live.

Totally agree. If you have a load of stuff you need an effects loop. But if you just have the Tube Screamer and a chorus an Wah then that is fine...

I just used the Boss ME6 pedal board in manual mode for all gigs in the late 80's and 90s..its absolutely brilliant...
Just clipped the JMP for hard clean. Had clean, reverb, chorus, delay, overdrive, and lead... everything I needed to do the job..

 

[mark123]

… As most may already know the pre amp comes with 4 ECC84'S And the power section 2 EL84's. …

Mine has 4 ECC83s and 2 EL34s. 😄

 

[-BOOGIEMAN-]

My experiences have shown that time based and modulation effects work best in effects loops, the clarity is real. I’ll never put those types of effects out in front of the amp again.

 

[Steve Smith]

My experiences have shown that time based and modulation effects work best in effects loops, the clarity is real. I’ll never put those types of effects out in front of the amp again.

Yes you are right, I completely agree in a recording sitiuation.. but if you are working live in a simple small gig instead of Journey in a stadium. What you supposed to do with a gig for 100 quid.. I would turn up with a guitar and combo. Do the gig then bugger off home with cash. Too old now

 

[-BOOGIEMAN-]

Yes you are right, I completely agree in a recording sitiuation.. but if you are working live in a simple small gig instead of Journey in a stadium. What you supposed to do with a gig for 100 quid.. I would turn up with a guitar and combo. Do the gig then bugger off home with cash. Too old now

Yep, played my share of those types of gigs back in the day. It sure was a simpler time for me as well because I used to only use a TS to push my Duel Rec and that was it…raw and unadulterated…what the hell has happened to me???!!!

 

[Steve Smith]

Yep, played my share of those types of gigs back in the day. It sure was a simpler time for me as well because I used to only use a TS to push my Duel Rec and that was it…raw and unadulterated…what the hell has happened to me???!!!

Nah you will be fine man xxx take care dude 😀 we geordies have a never say give up attitude xxx

 

[Steve Smith]

Mine has 4 ECC83s and 2 EL34s. 😄

Two EL34s then yours is 50 watt and lovely sweet tone xxx Mine is 4 EL34'S and a big 100 loud shouty thing..

Maybe the 50 is a sweet lady and the 100 is a raunchy man?

I have really lost the plot now, sorry...

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Yes you are right, I completely agree in a recording sitiuation.. but if you are working live in a simple small gig instead of Journey in a stadium. What you supposed to do with a gig for 100 quid.. I would turn up with a guitar and combo. Do the gig then bugger off home with cash. Too old now

I have 3 pedal boards from small to large. Prewired with a small snake. I simply bring the one I need for venue size and get multi fx in loop, OD, wah tuner up front, etc.
Easy, fast setup, and I play better when I like my own sound.
Often less than 100 quid equivalent but it's sure fun!!

No stadium but a large hall with larger stage means the big board. Whether I use EQ in loop is amp dependent. I am stage left.
Cheers!

 

[mcblink]

I use an Ibanez tube screamer to scoop or boost the lower end and I have a Boss GE-7 band EQ though I can't seem to get the sound I want with it and removed it from the FX loop. Should I even attempt to go down that rabbit hole, or continue to experiment with what I got?

Can you elaborate? How is your Tube Screamer set? Where is it in your signal chain? Which of the amp's channels/modes are you using? The GE-7 is a great tool to shape your tone with. How is it set?

The DSL will get plenty mean with those two things alone, provided that you're using them correctly. I don't believe any amount of tube swapping will achieve what you describe.

I would suggest this, and in this order:

1. Remove all pedals. Plug only the guitar into the amp. Using your preferred channel, adjust the amp to sound as "mean" as possible on it's own. Hint: don't be skimping on the mids. It's tempting to scoop them out, but don't.

2. Plug guitar into Tube Screamer, and then plug the Tube Screamer into the input of the amp. Set the Drive down low, about 9 o'clock. Set the Level way up high. Set the tone knob somewhere in the middle, wherever it sounds best to you.

3. Add GE-7 to the loop. Keep the level slider on the very right zeroed out, right in the middle. Set the others a little something like this (not my pic but I do something similar although it's more curved, like a "smile")






This should get you to a halfway decent starting point. Experiment with it. Bump the drive up on the TS, or down. Bring the sliders on the EQ up or down a touch, mess with it.

You should be able to get pretty damn mean with what you got already.

 

[Steve Smith]

Mine has 4 ECC83s and 2 EL34s. 😄

Bugger no got it wrong, 4 EL34s power amp valves ! For 100 watts what an utter pillock..

Its a bloody nuclear bomb in loudness... but you know what? As far as sound is concerened I really can not fault my 1x12 valvestate AVT 150 2000 combo....

Everything in one bucket with one little ECC83 at the preamp
... the tone is lovely... the clean channel is great. The overdrive and lead channels are fab. The digital fx are very good...

But the negatives are... the acoustic simulator channel is a complete waste of time and pointlesd, the scope buttons to take out the mid frequencies are a waste of time

The digital fx are good but the options ans settings are limited.

In essence, a great amp with a few flaws..

My thoughts, take out the acoustic simulator channel and the mid range scope buttons.

Maybe put in a parametric and improve the facility of the digital fx

 

[Steve Smith]

Can you elaborate? How is your Tube Screamer set? Where is it in your signal chain? Which of the amp's channels/modes are you using? The GE-7 is a great tool to shape your tone with. How is it set?

The DSL will get plenty mean with those two things alone, provided that you're using them correctly. I don't believe any amount of tube swapping will achieve what you describe.

I would suggest this, and in this order:

1. Remove all pedals. Plug only the guitar into the amp. Using your preferred channel, adjust the amp to sound as "mean" as possible on it's own.

2. Plug guitar into Tube Screamer, and then plug the Tube Screamer into the input of the amp. Set the Drive down low, about 9 o'clock. Set the Level way up high. Set the tone knob somewhere in the middle, wherever it sounds best to you.

3. Add GE-7 to the loop. Keep the level slider on the very right zeroed out, right in the middle. Set the others a little something like this (not my pic but I do something similar although it's more curved, like a "smile")

View attachment 127814




This should get you to a halfway decent starting point. Experiment with it. Bump the drive up on the TS, or down. Bring the sliders on the EQ up or down a touch, mess with it.

You should be able to get pretty damn mean with what you got already.

That is a very powerful rock tone there for rhythm very nice xxxc. Bass up take the mid range out and get the highs in... but absolutely no good for lead... with lead guitar you really need the midrange to cut through .... if you use that setting for lead then nobody will hear you.

 

[Steve Smith]

Can you elaborate? How is your Tube Screamer set? Where is it in your signal chain? Which of the amp's channels/modes are you using? The GE-7 is a great tool to shape your tone with. How is it set?

The DSL will get plenty mean with those two things alone, provided that you're using them correctly. I don't believe any amount of tube swapping will achieve what you describe.

I would suggest this, and in this order:

1. Remove all pedals. Plug only the guitar into the amp. Using your preferred channel, adjust the amp to sound as "mean" as possible on it's own.

2. Plug guitar into Tube Screamer, and then plug the Tube Screamer into the input of the amp. Set the Drive down low, about 9 o'clock. Set the Level way up high. Set the tone knob somewhere in the middle, wherever it sounds best to you.

3. Add GE-7 to the loop. Keep the level slider on the very right zeroed out, right in the middle. Set the others a little something like this (not my pic but I do something similar although it's more curved, like a "smile")

View attachment 127814




This should get you to a halfway decent starting point. Experiment with it. Bump the drive up on the TS, or down. Bring the sliders on the EQ up or down a touch, mess with it.

You should be able to get pretty damn mean with what you got already.

I think use your EQ setting that you have suggested for rhythm. Get that smooth sound. Then turn the pattern upside down for that mid range lead

 

[mcblink]

That is a very powerful rock tone there for rhythm very nice xxxc. Bass up take the mid range out and get the highs in... but absolutely no good for lead... with lead guitar you really need the midrange to cut through .... if you use that setting for lead then nobody will hear you.

I think use your EQ setting that you have suggested for rhythm. Get that smooth sound. Then turn the pattern upside down for that mid range lead

Yep, absolutely. That's why I suggested it as a starting point. Ultimately, he's going to have to experiment and find out for himself what he likes, but I suspect these settings will get him closer to what he's describing.