Is this a 1974 1960a Cab?

Derrick111

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Yes, pretty lucky. I have a reputation for being rather critical of my gear though. Both in sound and in originality. In fact, you've sent me some rare parts all the way to the USA which wasn't cheap for me, but shows my commitment :uk::usa:

I think the major point I was trying to get across is that the average player/semi collector doesn't need to be this excessive. I find that beginners to vintage or a new type of vintage equipment can have a complex where what they don't know much about scares them into being paranoid that they paid for might be somehow inferior, or that they need to do needless servicing/cleaning steps to make it "right". All they end up doing often times is making it less desirable for the next buyer and in some cased, do irreversible damage.

You can carefully move the cones as you mentioned, right there still in the cabinet with your fingers to check cone rub. I personally don't like stuff that someone has ripped apart to sniff around everywhere.

You are knowledgeable and experienced, but most are not, or think they are but are mistaken. Experienced can make mistakes too though, so...
 
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Scumback Speakers

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There are far too many speaker crooks selling old speakers as original. I've got four G12M's in the shop right now that were sent to me to be inspected. I know it's going to be bad for the client when you pull the speaker out and there's no doping anywhere on the cone complete with V30 style foam gaskets, not cork. Flip it over, and I found where the original cone # (mystery now) has been painted over with white out, and then a stellar 1777 stamp in the wrong font/wrong place is found on each cone.

Did they all rub? No, just three. The last one had it's voice coil wires unsoldered. The reconer had put his sticker on the inside of the frame spoke facing towards the cone (meaning you had to rip the cone out to see it or get out a compact mirror). Amplified Instrument Service in Detroit, MI. The client will be contacting them, but it's hard to say if the seller had them do this or not. He just charged my client a shit load of money for these G12M's (green, black and 2 gray backs) that suck.

Long story short, my average on old Celestions with voice coil rub is about 30-40% bad on arrival. Granted, I've bought about 500 old Celestions, but if you only had 1 bad out of 50, you've led a charmed life.
 
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Derrick111

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Holy $hit, that's roughly 175 out of 500! Yea, either I've got good luck, or you've got bad luck :hmm: Well, look at it this way... If I ever have to buy raw speakers going forward, with the price of vintage what they are now and the great options we have today, I will likely buy Scumback and a few other current options. I'm pretty thankful for your R&D and commitment to bring great current speakers with the character we love from the golden oldies.
 

Garth Rocket

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Yes, pretty lucky. I have a reputation for being rather critical of my gear though. Both in sound and in originality. In fact, you've sent me some rare parts all the way to the USA which wasn't cheap for me, but shows my commitment :uk::usa:

I think the major point I was trying to get across is that the average player/semi collector doesn't need to be this excessive. I find that beginners to vintage or a new type of vintage equipment can have a complex where what they don't know much about scares them into being paranoid that they paid for might be somehow inferior, or that they need to do needless servicing/cleaning steps to make it "right". All they end up doing often times is making it less desirable for the next buyer and in some cased, do irreversible damage.

You can carefully move the cones as you mentioned, right there still in the cabinet with your fingers to check cone rub. I personally don't like stuff that someone has ripped apart to sniff around everywhere.

You are knowledgeable and experienced, but most are not or think they are but are mistaken. Experienced can make mistakes too though, so...
That’s solid advice and a great point!
 

Garth Rocket

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There are far too many speaker crooks selling old speakers as original. I've got four G12M's in the shop right now that were sent to me to be inspected. I know it's going to be bad for the client when you pull the speaker out and there's no doping anywhere on the cone complete with V30 style foam gaskets, not cork. Flip it over, and I found where the original cone # (mystery now) has been painted over with white out, and then a stellar 1777 stamp in the wrong font/wrong place is found on each cone.

Did they all rub? No, just three. The last one had it's voice coil wires unsoldered. The reconer had put his sticker on the inside of the frame spoke facing towards the cone (meaning you had to rip the cone out to see it or get out a compact mirror). Amplified Instrument Service in Detroit, MI. The client will be contacting them, but it's hard to say if the seller had them do this or not. He just charged my client a shit load of money for these G12M's (green, black and 2 gray backs) that suck.

Long story short, my average on old Celestions with voice coil rub is about 30-40% bad on arrival. Granted, I've bought about 500 old Celestions, but if you only had 1 bad out of 50, you've led a charmed life.
I would guess you see the worst of things, because anytime someone is selling one desirable speaker or even a pickup, my thought is why? What happened to the others? I feel the likely hood of failure or disappointment is much higher when your out in the vintage parts market. It’s great that companies like yours are out there to provide a solid successful service when needed.
 

Garth Rocket

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Holy $hit, that's roughly 175 out of 500! Yea, either I've got good luck, or you've got bad luck :hmm: Well, look at it this way... If I ever have to buy raw speakers going forward, with the price of vintage what they are now and the great options we have today, I will likely buy Scumback and a few other current options. I'm pretty thankful for your R&D and commitment to bring great current speakers with the character we love from the golden oldies.
Any time you get a hint of nonsense when you are looking at vintage, I’ve found it’s best to pass. There’s usually more issues in the areas you couldn’t or didn’t inspect. Provenance is important and knowing why a guy bought and eventually sold his gear is actually quite relevant. I always like the adds telling you it’s the best guitar or amp they’ve ever had, yet they are selling it. That’s a red flag for me
 

BygoneTones

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I would go with a higher percentage than that for me. Not necessarily with coil rub, but I'd go with around 75% that I get hold of will have issues of some kind, or just not sound as they should. I'm talking about old greenbacks and alnicos btw. The later speakers like the G12-80s and 65's, or reissue greenbacks tend to be a lot better made and more robust, they are a safer buy generally speaking.

It's the old argument do you keep things original for collectability's sake? Or do you maintain them and have them sound as good as possible? Is it a museum piece you like looking at or something you want to actually use for recording / gigging etc? It's finding that middle ground, keep as original as possible, but also sounding as good as possible.
 

metromutt

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I would go with a higher percentage than that for me. Not necessarily with coil rub, but I'd go with around 75% that I get hold of will have issues of some kind, or just not sound as they should. I'm talking about old greenbacks and alnicos btw.

Personally I'd go a tad higher. Over the years I was collecting old greenbacks up to the last Blackbacks, most had coil rub when pressing the cone to emulate movement at high volume. I ended up selling the last of my collection for £60 each as I couldn't bring myself to sell on ebay knowing that they were not in tip top condition. I can't stress enough for people to test before buying. That said if you're only going to play at low volumes then chances are they're going to sound great, well at least nice 'n warm!
 

Derrick111

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I think it just depends. The two issues I had both showed up at low volumes or when the notes decayed at higher volumes. Of note, both were full cabinet purchases, not raw single speaker(s). I believe at least one of my coil rub issues was from being dropped/rough handles in shipping... probably both were though. Sadly, I have found out many times what "brown can do for you". I trust the seller of that one. No matter how well you pack, if an ape throws your 82 lbs. cabinet many feet in the shipping bay because you are board, hate your life, and the box says "Fragile!", there is bound to be frame movement.
 

Scumback Speakers

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After my first 20-30 DOA G12M/G12H purchases, I instituted a policy of getting my money back if the speaker tested had "cone cry", voice coil rub, vibrational noises, or glue joints that came loose (spider, dust caps, etc). I'd say about 40-50 times I got my money back on those purchases as I had to then recone the speaker. But I still got burned plenty of times before I did that purchase clause since I did well over 250 buys (usually 2-4 at a time).

It didn't hurt that Orange County Speaker Repair did the testing (before I got my own test equipment) for me, so there wasn't any BS about it for the seller.

I am glad that's all behind me, though.
 


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