...is the stuff still out there?

Matthews Guitars

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How interesting that those two consecutively serialized JTM45s have two different knob styles. I guess they used what they had available. Given that Marshall used wartime surplus parts, particularly in the early years, this shouldn't be a big surprise.
 

tomsvintage

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How interesting that those two consecutively serialized JTM45s have two different knob styles. I guess they used what they had available. Given that Marshall used wartime surplus parts, particularly in the early years, this shouldn't be a big surprise.

Yes ~ very interesting :)

These amps were built during a very short lived transitional time in the early years at there first factory in Silverdale Road Hayes Middlesex, moving in in mid 64, before moving to there now factory in Bletchley Buckinghamshire.

The circuits are nearly identical :)

I asked Ken Underwood about the possibility of some of the girls that built these amps (Betty, Jane , Eileen , Rosemary etc....) chiming in and he said that unfortunately they have all passed. Wouldn't that have be interesting to hear from a few of them ??!! :)
 
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Matthews Guitars

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I confess I'm a bit surprised that consecutively serialized JTM45s would have ANY circuitry variations between them.

What is different?
 

tomsvintage

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I confess I'm a bit surprised that consecutively serialized JTM45s would have ANY circuitry variations between them.

What is different?
One switch was non original on the bottom amp :) Pleximaster had an old matching one and installed it ! Other than that the circuits are identical.
 

Derrick111

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I confess I'm a bit surprised that consecutively serialized JTM45s would have ANY circuitry variations between them.

What is different?
Having consecutive serial numbers doesn't mean that they were made consecutively. The panels were bought in batches and assemblers would just grab one form the bin, so it was chance which one you grabbed. Sure it's possible that the stack was tidy, and that the panels were grabbed consecutively, but I'm getting people to think how everything is not a logical absolute. Same thing happened with Fender serial number plates, Ludwig drum serial number plates, etc. In the case of Tom's early plexis, even if the panels weren't grabbed consecutively, the batches were likely so low that the amps were made nearly consecutively. If it took a week to build one and there were three people back then building, there could be a week or more between them... or not. The knobs could have run out in that week and others sourced and used the following week or so when another was built. They would be buying in small quantities at that stage in their existence. The knobs on the one could always have been changed, but I didn't look closely... they might be original. But again, just opening up the mind set for how these things can be explained.
 

tomsvintage

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:woot:
Having consecutive serial numbers doesn't mean that they were made consecutively. The panels were bought in batches and assemblers would just grab one form the bin, so it was chance which one you grabbed. Sure it's possible that the stack was tidy, and that the panels were grabbed consecutively, but I'm getting people to think how everything is not a logical absolute. Same thing happened with Fender serial number plates, Ludwig drum serial number plates, etc. In the case of Tom's early plexis, even if the panels weren't grabbed consecutively, the batches were likely so low that the amps were made nearly consecutively. If it took a week to build one and there were three people back then building, there could be a week or more between them... or not. The knobs could have run out in that week and others sourced and used the following week or so when another was built. They would be buying in small quantities at that stage in their existence. The knobs on the one could always have been changed, but I didn't look closely... they might be original. But again, just opening up the mind set for how these things can be explained.
You bring up a very good point :)

When discussing this subject I always keep in mind that none of us were there when it all happened so that makes it all speculative and an interesting discussion :)

From what information I have gathered during all these years ~ I imagine that there was some inconsistency regarding parts and components availability and sourcing.

We can always ask ~ where did you hear or read that ? With that being said ....

AFAIK ~ Ken Underwood is the only one of us here on this forum that was actually there and in the mix at the time period making him a very credible source IMHO :) Ken told me that there is a very good chance that they were built during the same week at the Silverdale road factory in 1964.

Now I'm looking for #1008 , #1011 and #1012 and have to generate more $ ... :wave::woot::cool::fingersx:
 
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pleximaster

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Now I'm looking for #1008 , #1011 and #1012 and have to generate more $ ... :wave::woot::cool::fingersx:

Or go all the way up... :)
PA 1056.jpg


However all early numbers especially those stamped in directly in to the aluminum chassis without any backplate were very random and not all numbers were used.

Same is for these early white plastic engraved backpanels like the one above and Tom´s 1009 and 1010. So for instance, between serial 1010-1049 there are probably not 50 amps made. Also the PA suffix Bass Lead were also not engraved but instead occasionally added with a silkscreen.

Reason for this, was the Brittish law demanded all electrical equipment like this to have serial numbers. However Jim Marshall who was a crafty business man, used these parameters to adapt the law and the bookkeeping early on, having two different books, one that showed many amps produced and one that showed low numbers of amps and speakers made. Also starting new series after awhile so there are not 1001 amps made between serial 1000 and 1999.

It is in some aspect to show you have a large production number, and in other low productions. If there was an inspection it was impossible to follow. a serial number with a suffix could in one book be displayed as "1056" and in another twice as 1056 and "PA 1056" Same amp. Then above Jim had the backpanels intentionally scrambled and dispersed over several workstations making checking inventory very difficult.

A bit off topic Several of the aluminum back amps (No white back panel) lack serial number altogether - hence not appearing in any book ledger at all... :)

Offtopic 2.
There is an other later different font and style of engraved back panels, often in 2xxx (there are also 2xxx serial number with the old style font) The later font is deeper and made in house at Marshall with a used engraving machine Jim got. this gave even more freedom to work with the serial numbers. The machine however was hard to operate and was hated among the staff and was phased out.

lijkbtkusp5xilxgdx5i.jpg
First engraved font (Outsourced)

56325255_1172874139557864_830287066024640512_o.jpg
Later engraved font (All engraved no print/Silkscreen at all, made in house)


plexi
 

Trapland

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That was a funny thread to watch—people mocking the price, then mocking the buyer, then…congrats lol!

I don’t think I mocked either. I did speculate on who and how buyers of this caliber of amp get it done. And I did congratulate the buyer.

My daily driver is a plexi and I’ve recently been on an amp bender, acquiring a few blackfaced and tweed fenders. We all acquire these things, or pass on them with different mindsets. Most of the amps I want are already in the hands of collectors and therefore expensive when they are offered for sale.

If I could just be happy with Line 6 collecting.
 

tomsvintage

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I don’t think I mocked either. I did speculate on who and how buyers of this caliber of amp get it done. And I did congratulate the buyer.

My daily driver is a plexi and I’ve recently been on an amp bender, acquiring a few blackfaced and tweed fenders. We all acquire these things, or pass on them with different mindsets. Most of the amps I want are already in the hands of collectors and therefore expensive when they are offered for sale.

If I could just be happy with Line 6 collecting.
Thank you for the congratulations !

I was able to get the JTM45 with the fantastic help of my friends ~ pleximaster and Jono from the Music Locker.

I love the Fender tweeds , blondes , browns and black faces too.

Nice to hear that your daily driver is a Plexi !

You will have an easy time finding a Line 6 ;)
 
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Trapland

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I got the Mosrite Ventures 2 model later in 1966 at Washington Music Center in Washington, DC View attachment 95513
I dig the Pro-Reverb! I wish I knew how great those sounded when I had a younger back. I always played blackfaced Twins because I felt like if I had to haul all that amp around it might as well be the whole enchilada. Truly the Pro-reverbs sound better in my opinion.
 

Trapland

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I’ve played guitar juggler a lot lately but have changed up a few amps. I fell off the roof and hurt my head and broke my back this spring. After being told I couldn’t lift anything over 20 lbs for a year I traded my 64 Twin Reverb for this 67 Vibrolux Reverb. It’s pretty beat but it’s also only 34 lbs instead of 80. My wife thinks it weighs 20 lbs. Considering Vibroluxes sell for twice what twins do here, I think it was a deal.
 

Trapland

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5 years ago I had a 1959 Super-Amp. I traded it to my local shop. I always regretted it. My friend who worked there instantly scooped it up. Tragically he was killed a year or so later. After several years I ask his widow if she still had the Super. She’s been waiting for me to buy it so she didn’t have to deal with scammers. I paid her fairly, get to keep my friends amp that was mine. It sounds amazing.

I know it’s not a Marshall, but it’s in the neighborhood.
 

tomsvintage

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5 years ago I had a 1959 Super-Amp. I traded it to my local shop. I always regretted it. My friend who worked there instantly scooped it up. Tragically he was killed a year or so later. After several years I ask his widow if she still had the Super. She’s been waiting for me to buy it so she didn’t have to deal with scammers. I paid her fairly, get to keep my friends amp that was mine. It sounds amazing.

I know it’s not a Marshall, but it’s in the neighborhood.
Great amp and sentimental keeper. I have 1960 Super amp and a 1960 Concert amp. I would love to hear a sound clip of that beautiful tweed 59 !
 

Derrick111

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I have a 1961 brown Fender Concert that I have a suspicion belonged to Skip Spence just after his time with Moby Grape. If it is, it would have been used to record this gem:

 
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Derrick111

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Yea, pretty raw rocker for a founder of Jefferson Airplane. Apparently Steppenwolf also recorded Born To Be Wild with a Fender Esquire plugged into an early '60's Fender Concert amp.
 


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