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Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by EJstrat&JVM, Jan 12, 2021.
The punch you seek is in the circuit not the transformer .
At first I always thought you needed big iron too.
Then I got a DSL1HR and a sealed 4x10 cab. It has great punch. My eq is usually Bass and Mid at noon, Treble maxed.
The cab is very important.
A small output trannie narrows the EQ more to the midrange. A larger trannie widens the EQ - higher highs and lower lows. But an EQ in the loop like an MXR 10 band can do just as much good.
I didn’t want to click on this thread because of the title, but my curiosity got the better of me. I was not disappointed.
i knew this was going to go sideways
There's a tranny on my shoulders
There's a tranny twixt my legs
There's a tranny on the ottoman
Eating deviled eggs
There's a tranny in the bathroom
There's a tranny in the yard
I don't know what it's doing there
I think it's standing guard
But the trannies I hold dearest
Are the ones inside my amps
They never steal my food and beer
Like all those tranny tramps
The large ones are the bestest
The small ones are ok
If you prefer big bottom
It's large ones all the way
Don’t forget to bookmark it, you may find out something about yourself you didn’t know! Ha,ha,ha
What is the difference in the circuit? I know I always like a 100w amp over it's counter part in 50w, I thought it was because of the transformer. I never cared about more volume, little better head room helps, but mostly just the so called "big iron sound". What are the other differences?
A few years ago I built a SLO clone . It sounded like a cross between a wood chipper and a drum machine . What I learned years later is just how much of the guitar signal is dumbed to ground . That is the key to high gain amps .that punch is the voltage drop in the preamp tubes that is controlled by the guitar signal . If you want more punch less signal to ground
l am with ampeq l love the 2203 and don't really care for the 2204 l figured ut was the Dagnall tranny vs Drake difference.And I don't know why but to me 50 watters always sound kanky. Most people prefer them I figured the difference of the transformer thing seeing ad how the rest of the circuit is the same
Assuming the builder uses a quality tranny, which is a bad assumption to make.
But all else being equal, a larger transformer will be better at producing low frequencies due to the higher inductance. Lower frequencies require more energy, and more inductance directly correlates to more energy. And with more energy, you can push more air. So think of it like more cushion for your pushin'. This is the main selling point of oversized trannies.
Unfortunately, Marshall has been much more consistent using the same name moreso than they have been using the same circuit. There are variations of the 2204 circuits which have a few key differences, even if they were all sold under the same designation.
The main difference between the 2204 and 2203 is the number of output tubes . The power is split between two banks of tubes one has one the ether has two. So the 2203 works les to drive the speakers . I don’t think the out put transformer has an inductance that would mean it would resistance changes in voltage like a choke.
shows you what I know.
I do tend to prefer 100 watt tone to 50 watt tone and I know that I prefer KT88 tone to EL34 tone. Maybe all the 50 watters I've played just had EL34's in them. I don't know. I should probably shut up now.
All electronic components have properties of inductance, resistance, and capacitance. That goes for resistors, capacitors, and inductors, of which transformers are a form of inductor. Terms like 'choke' and 'transformer' exist to differentiate the different applications an inductor is intended for.
Inductance, capacitance, and resistance all work together to determine the frequency response of a transformer, the same way they determine the sound of a pickup, which is another form of inductor.
hehe I would blame Marshall's marketing people, as they chose to give different circuits the same name. I used to think every Marshall had the exact same preamp circuit, that that was what constituted the 'Marshall Sound'. That was before I ventured down the bottomless rabbit hole of amp construction.
Transformers are a dumb component in the amp circuit. They change voltage or create inductance, not tone. It is the circuit around that dumb device that shapes or controls the tone sound created by an amp.
If a power supply circuit is driven too hard and can not produce the power requested by the amp, it most likely will show up as distortion or loss of volume in the sound.
Older amps use a tube for a rectifier circuit vs newer amps using a semi-conductor.
New amps are good, but older amps with a tube rectifier stage usually will have more sag, that seems to be the thing guitar players love about old amps.
Newer amps are likely to use smaller dumb transformers as the semi-conductor compenets are much more efficiant and faster responding to voltage and amperage changes.
Same with output transformers. It is a dumb device and does not really affect or shape the sound. It only passes signal into the speaker. The tone your power tubes create is what goes through to the speaker.
Where did all this come from......
I play guitar, I don't build amps.
I think I better go prcactice some more..... this took too much time.
Both power and output transformers are an integral part of a tube amp circuit, shaping the sound as do all the other active components. Transformers that are undersized (not enough iron in the core) do not have the magnetic flux to produce the electromotive force in the output winding and will saturate. Resulting in an amp with poor dynamics (feel), low power output, poor frequency response - less bass poor mid range and brittle high end, loss of overtones etc.
The transformer(s) only match the tube output and transform it to a level for loudspeakers. They do not provide punch per se.
The output amplifier and supporting power supple design itself provides the punch.
You don't use 2 small trannies or a big one. They use you.
I suggest steering clear of that noise, unless of course if it's your sort of thing.
You'll have to ask Eddy Murphy ...... it's an old News story well known around LA, Google it.