is it possible to use 2 small trannies instead of a big one?

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by EJstrat&JVM, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. South Park

    South Park Well-Known Member

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    The punch you seek is in the circuit not the transformer .
     
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  2. DonP

    DonP Active Member

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    At first I always thought you needed big iron too.

    Then I got a DSL1HR and a sealed 4x10 cab. It has great punch. My eq is usually Bass and Mid at noon, Treble maxed.

    The cab is very important.



    A small output trannie narrows the EQ more to the midrange. A larger trannie widens the EQ - higher highs and lower lows. But an EQ in the loop like an MXR 10 band can do just as much good.
     
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  3. 93studiolite

    93studiolite Member

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    I didn’t want to click on this thread because of the title, but my curiosity got the better of me. I was not disappointed.
     
  4. Exotic

    Exotic Well-Known Member

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    i knew this was going to go sideways :io::iough:
     
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  5. Trelwheen

    Trelwheen Certified B.S. Launcher Double Platinum Supporting Member

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    There's a tranny on my shoulders
    There's a tranny twixt my legs
    There's a tranny on the ottoman
    Eating deviled eggs

    There's a tranny in the bathroom
    There's a tranny in the yard
    I don't know what it's doing there
    I think it's standing guard

    But the trannies I hold dearest
    Are the ones inside my amps
    They never steal my food and beer
    Like all those tranny tramps

    The large ones are the bestest
    The small ones are ok
    If you prefer big bottom
    It's large ones all the way

    :headbanger:
     
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  6. ampeq

    ampeq Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget to bookmark it, you may find out something about yourself you didn’t know! Ha,ha,ha
     
  7. ampeq

    ampeq Well-Known Member

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    What is the difference in the circuit? I know I always like a 100w amp over it's counter part in 50w, I thought it was because of the transformer. I never cared about more volume, little better head room helps, but mostly just the so called "big iron sound". What are the other differences?
     
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  8. MarshallDog

    MarshallDog Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Asian :lol:
     
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  9. South Park

    South Park Well-Known Member

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    A few years ago I built a SLO clone . It sounded like a cross between a wood chipper and a drum machine . What I learned years later is just how much of the guitar signal is dumbed to ground . That is the key to high gain amps .that punch is the voltage drop in the preamp tubes that is controlled by the guitar signal . If you want more punch less signal to ground
     
  10. Dirty-D

    Dirty-D Member

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    l am with ampeq l love the 2203 and don't really care for the 2204 l figured ut was the Dagnall tranny vs Drake difference.And I don't know why but to me 50 watters always sound kanky. Most people prefer them I figured the difference of the transformer thing seeing ad how the rest of the circuit is the same
     
  11. potency

    potency New Member

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    Assuming the builder uses a quality tranny, which is a bad assumption to make.

    But all else being equal, a larger transformer will be better at producing low frequencies due to the higher inductance. Lower frequencies require more energy, and more inductance directly correlates to more energy. And with more energy, you can push more air. So think of it like more cushion for your pushin'. This is the main selling point of oversized trannies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  12. potency

    potency New Member

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    Unfortunately, Marshall has been much more consistent using the same name moreso than they have been using the same circuit. There are variations of the 2204 circuits which have a few key differences, even if they were all sold under the same designation.
     
  13. South Park

    South Park Well-Known Member

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    The main difference between the 2204 and 2203 is the number of output tubes . The power is split between two banks of tubes one has one the ether has two. So the 2203 works les to drive the speakers . I don’t think the out put transformer has an inductance that would mean it would resistance changes in voltage like a choke.
     
  14. Dirty-D

    Dirty-D Member

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    s
    shows you what I know.

    I do tend to prefer 100 watt tone to 50 watt tone and I know that I prefer KT88 tone to EL34 tone. Maybe all the 50 watters I've played just had EL34's in them. I don't know. I should probably shut up now.:agreed:
     
  15. potency

    potency New Member

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    All electronic components have properties of inductance, resistance, and capacitance. That goes for resistors, capacitors, and inductors, of which transformers are a form of inductor. Terms like 'choke' and 'transformer' exist to differentiate the different applications an inductor is intended for.

    Inductance, capacitance, and resistance all work together to determine the frequency response of a transformer, the same way they determine the sound of a pickup, which is another form of inductor.


    hehe I would blame Marshall's marketing people, as they chose to give different circuits the same name. I used to think every Marshall had the exact same preamp circuit, that that was what constituted the 'Marshall Sound'. That was before I ventured down the bottomless rabbit hole of amp construction.
     
  16. Mrmadd

    Mrmadd Active Member

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    Transformers are a dumb component in the amp circuit. They change voltage or create inductance, not tone. It is the circuit around that dumb device that shapes or controls the tone sound created by an amp.
    If a power supply circuit is driven too hard and can not produce the power requested by the amp, it most likely will show up as distortion or loss of volume in the sound.
    Older amps use a tube for a rectifier circuit vs newer amps using a semi-conductor.
    New amps are good, but older amps with a tube rectifier stage usually will have more sag, that seems to be the thing guitar players love about old amps.
    Newer amps are likely to use smaller dumb transformers as the semi-conductor compenets are much more efficiant and faster responding to voltage and amperage changes.
    Same with output transformers. It is a dumb device and does not really affect or shape the sound. It only passes signal into the speaker. The tone your power tubes create is what goes through to the speaker.
    Where did all this come from......
    I play guitar, I don't build amps.
    I think I better go prcactice some more..... this took too much time.
    Lol
     
  17. nkd

    nkd Member

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    Both power and output transformers are an integral part of a tube amp circuit, shaping the sound as do all the other active components. Transformers that are undersized (not enough iron in the core) do not have the magnetic flux to produce the electromotive force in the output winding and will saturate. Resulting in an amp with poor dynamics (feel), low power output, poor frequency response - less bass poor mid range and brittle high end, loss of overtones etc.
     
  18. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    The transformer(s) only match the tube output and transform it to a level for loudspeakers. They do not provide punch per se.

    The output amplifier and supporting power supple design itself provides the punch.
     
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  19. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    You don't use 2 small trannies or a big one. They use you.

    I suggest steering clear of that noise, unless of course if it's your sort of thing.
     
  20. jazzdj

    jazzdj Member

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    You'll have to ask Eddy Murphy ...... it's an old News story well known around LA, Google it.
     

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