I wish I never learned about guitar speakers

[Vinsanitizer]

See, this is what kicks me right in the ol' Chicken McNuggets:

First of all, I hate playing the "buy it to try it" game, even if there are good return polies. But I really amn't liking the Seventy/80 speaker in my DSL20CR, so something has to be done about it.

So I figure I'll stick with what I know and like, right? My 1960A cab is loaded with G12T-75's, and I've been liking them more than V30's, especially with the JCM 800 and a couple of DSL's. So I orders me up a G12T-75 from Amazon, toss it in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up, and it's... ok. ...it sounds better than the 70/80 ...but it does sound a little shrill and I've been tweaking the map for a half hour and I'm like, hmm. It's just "ok". Nothing special here.

So I hop on Celestion's website and YouTube, to research other speakers. I don't want to get into greenbacks and creambacks, and be sorting out all the "G, H, K... LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ versions, I just want to get somewhere quick. I've heard good things, good sound clips for the V-Type, and Celestion mentions them as "balanced, a mix of vinatge and modern, and being especially good for solos to cut through".

So I orders me up a V-Type from Amazon, toss in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up and after about 20 minutes, I'm like YAY!!!! I really like the speaker, ya know? So then I go through the same thought patterns we all do, like "should I replace ALL of my map speakers with V-Types across the board?" - 'cause I'm pretty excited, right?

But then...

But then, I go back out to YouTube and have a few more listens, and I discover there's another version of the V-Type that's supposed to be EVEN BETTER?? It's called the "Neo V-Type", and it's got "clearer this and warmer that", blah, blah, blah. I saw what's his name demo'ing it, and it does seem to sound a little nicer. (Although that guy can get great tone from 6 slices of moldy cheese.)

This feels like when I saved up for a few years to finally buy my Gibson R9 flametop Historic, and then 6 months later, Gibson came out with the new R9 TRUE Historic, and I was like, "so what have I got now, a not-so-true inferior Historic DAMMIT?"

So NOW WTF am I supposed to do? I can't just keep buying and returning brand new speakers back and forth to Amazon and Celestion all year, it bothers my conscience, see? But I want the best.

Can any of you people console me? Tell me the "Neo" version really isn't as good as it seems to be? 'cause you know that's what I really want to hear, right? But I feel like I just gotta know so I can be done with it, and it's bugging the carp out of me already.

Thanks.

 

[Nadir]

Sadly no help here ...
I am waiting for the right deal for a Marshall Code 25 already knowing that I will change the speaker ...

 

[fitz]

I never tried a "Neo".
Tried some V-Types with my DSL20HR (in MX112 closed back, ported cabs).
Also tried the T-75's.
And some T-66's (Haze Marquee)
And V-30's.
And a T-75 with a V30.
Currently have a pair of H30 Anniversary - luv 'em with that amp.
All of them are an upgrade to the Seventy-80's. (imo)
Also have no stock tubes in that (any) amp.
Not sure how any of this would translate to an open back combo...

 

[ricksdisconnected]

sometimes its not about having what you want but wanting what you have.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

sometimes its not about having what you want but wanting what you have.

...


.

 

[Mike_LA]

Can you Really hear the difference when you are actually playing with other people?

 

[Bull Rock]

I dig the v type a lot. That being said I also dig Mesa C90s. Whatever speaker is in my HT20 is pretty damn good too. I'm going to get another cab for the 20 and prob throw a v type in it.

 

[PowerTube44]

This phenomenon is known as "Option Anxiety." When there are too many options, we're never satisfied with the ones we've taken. I love the sounds I have dialed in on my rig, yet I'm still constantly tweaking.

 

[Rokinroller]

I took out the 70/80 in my DSL40C , got a V-Type on sale brand new , put it in the 40C , much better . But I have a G12T brand new in da box which I bought New back in mid 90's ... now thats the best 12T I ever had / heard. But its 8 ohm . I need a 16 in the 40C . V-Type is good . I' hoping it gets better , smoother (less highs) with more playing time on it . Still ... after all these years , G12T75 is my choice for the Marshall sound I like .

 

[Geeze]

I spoke to a Celestion rep at a show in 2014 - as I was kicking off an extended journey into the dark murky bright underworld that is speakers - about the Neo speakers. He said the jazz guys really liked the glassy cleans, the rock guys not so much. So I crossed them off the possibles list leaving only 329 other speakers to explore. What improvements they've made to Neos since then I don't want to know...

So put down the youboob, pick up yo guitar and wail!

Russ

 

[Matthews Guitars]

Funny, you say you don't want to get into the Greenbacks and Creambacks, but the truth is, there's the tone you are probably seeking.

Get a reissue 16 ohm T1221 or 8 ohm T1220 G12M25 Greenback, stick it in the amp, throw the amp across the room, and GO. You'll most like likely love it.

There's a very good reason why it's essentially the gold standard of vintage voiced Celestions.

For an amp that's a little bit less bright sounding, a G12M65 Creamback is also a great option. It's very like the M25 Greenback, but with a little brighter treble and a substantially higher power rating. (And it offers a little bit more bass, too.)

 

[chocol8]

Get a decent modeler or reactive load and demo speakers through quality IR's. That will let you try a ton of speakers for minimal investment.

As far as "neo" speakers, usually that means they use a much lighter weight neodymium magnet. The point is to make a combo amp or cab lighter, not necessarily sound better. If weight is not an issue, I would suggest avoiding them.

 

[GIBSON67]

Let me suggest more speakers...ha! Just kidding!

New speakers need breaking in to sound full, in most cases. Don't be too quick to judge until you give them a thorough thrashing for weeks! (my fav part of trying speakers)

G12H30 T1281 for the win!

 

[Jubilant]

Funny, you say you don't want to get into the Greenbacks and Creambacks, but the truth is, there's the tone you are probably seeking.

Get a reissue 16 ohm T1221 or 8 ohm T1220 G12M25 Greenback, stick it in the amp, throw the amp across the room, and GO. You'll most like likely love it.

There's a very good reason why it's essentially the gold standard of vintage voiced Celestions.

For an amp that's a little bit less bright sounding, a G12M65 Creamback is also a great option. It's very like the M25 Greenback, but with a little brighter treble and a substantially higher power rating. (And it offers a little bit more bass, too.)

This!

 

[DirtySteve]

You might want to try to find an older G12T-75, from what I understand they are nothing like the new ones and it will be well broken in. I have one from '82 and it sounds great, no shrill like you describe.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

T75s are very scooped sounding speakers. Even from generation to generation, they still retain that character. So if you're looking for a less harsh top end, they would not be my first recommendation.

 

[RCM 800]

See, this is what kicks me right in the ol' Chicken McNuggets:

First of all, I hate playing the "buy it to try it" game, even if if there are good return polies. But I really amn't liking the Seventy/80 speaker in my DSL20CR, so something has to be done about it.

So I figure I'll stick with what I know and like, right? My 1960A cab is loaded with G12T-75's, and I've been liking them more than V30's, especially with the JCM 800 and a couple of DSL's. So I orders me up a G12T-75 from Amazon, toss it in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up, and it's... ok. ...it sounds better than the 70/80 ...but it does sound a little shrill and I've been tweaking the map for a half hour and I'm like, hmm. It's just "ok". Nothing special here.

So I hop on Celestion's website and YouTube, to research other speakers. I don't want to get into greenbacks and creambacks, and be sorting out all the "G, H, K... LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ versions, I just want to get somewhere quick. So I order the V-Type. I've heard good things, good sound clips, and Celestion mentions them as "balanced, a mix of vinatge and modern, and being especially good for solos to cut through".

So I orders me up a V-Type, toss in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up and after about 20 minutes, I'm like YAY!!!! I really like the speaker, ya know? So then I go through the same thought patterns we all do, like "should I replace ALL of my map speakers with V-Types across the board?" - 'cause I'm pretty excited, right?

But then...

But then, I go back out to YouTube and have a few more listens, and I discover there's another version of the V-Type that's supposed to be EVEN BETTER?? It's called the "Neo V-Type", and it's got "clearer this and warmer that", blah, blah, blah. I saw what's his name demo'ing it, and it does seem to sound a little nicer. (Although that guy can get great tone from 6 slices of moldy cheese.)

This feels like when I saved up for a few years to finally buy my Gibson R9 flametop Historic, and then 6 months later, Gibson came out with the new R9 TRUE Historic, and I was like, "so what have I got now, a not-so-true inferior Historic DAMMIT?"

So NOW WTF am I supposed to do? I can't just keep buying and returning brand new speakers back and forth to Amazon and Celestion all year, it bothers my conscience, see? But I want the best.

Can any of you people console me? Tell me the "Neo" version really isn't as good as it seems to be? 'cause you know that's what I really want to hear, right? But I feel like I just gotta know so I can be done with it, and it's bugging the carp out of me already.

Thanks.

I dont know about speakers but I would recommend you sell me your inferior R9 to finance the "better" one.

 

[Seven]

Most guitar players, including myself, have musical influences from great players or great recordings from the past. The tones we hear are heavily influenced by the signal chain of the studio, the room it was recorded in, the engineer and even the mastering engineer. So, what we hear as the final output is much more than just an amp or speaker.

Classic recordings thru analog equipment are a little easier to determine, but many modern recorded guitar tones are often re-amped and replaced by amp and cabinet simulation, etc.

The reason I bring this up is to suggest reverse engineering what tone or tones you are chasing. If your favorite guitarist uses Greenbacks or Vintage 30's or whatever category of speakers, then save yourself some frustration and use what they use. If they are fully digital and run everything direct thru a box, then maybe start looking into that method, or both.

We can never sound exactly like someone else and I never encourage such folly, but we can use certain tones as a launching pad for what inspires us to play the things we enjoy.

Relative to guitar amps, the speaker is were the sound is produced so investing a few extra dollars on a higher grade of speaker usually makes a difference.

We all hear differently, so I can suggest a certain Greenback, but another person may not like it. Some amps just sound the same no matter what speaker you use which usually means we have the wrong amp.

Tone chasing is a rabbit hole and a can of worms all rolled into one. (Great tone takes time to develop). As soon as I think I found it, I get tired of it and the process starts all over again.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

one thing to keep in mind...

speakers are designed for specific enclosure types. For instance, some speakers rely on certain back pressure to get desired results, hence, why say, a G12-75 will sound great in an enclosed cab, like a 1960 cab, along w/ 3 other speakers, vs, playing the exact same speaker thrown in an open-air - open back cabinet.

Other speakers are made to not rely on back pressure & can work in a wider variety of enclosures, or even open-air design.

Open back cab's rely on tuning the cab to the wall/room. Still though many speakers, designed for specific back pressure will sound anemic, regardless of the tune, because the spider/cone will be flubby.

Another thing to consider w/ open back vs sealed cab, is that solid state have more control over the wave, & tubes give more of a raw wave to the speaker. This means that, the pressure of a sealed cab, helps keep the excursion contained, whereas the open back makes the raw power more radical, which makes the speaker more prone to farting & voice coil distortion.

Because the speaker is lacking the tight control in the bass frequencies, people tend to turn up the bass in open back cab's, furthering the negative effects.

While MartyStrat never came out w/ a study on it, he did mention that, that's why he preferred his Eminence speakers in his TSL combo amp's. The speakers, IIRC, some sort of Patriot & Cannabis Rex, because they were designed to work w/o the back pressure of an enclosed cab & filled in the void, left by typical Celestions used in closed cab's...

 

[paul-e-mann]

See, this is what kicks me right in the ol' Chicken McNuggets:

First of all, I hate playing the "buy it to try it" game, even if if there are good return polies. But I really amn't liking the Seventy/80 speaker in my DSL20CR, so something has to be done about it.

So I figure I'll stick with what I know and like, right? My 1960A cab is loaded with G12T-75's, and I've been liking them more than V30's, especially with the JCM 800 and a couple of DSL's. So I orders me up a G12T-75 from Amazon, toss it in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up, and it's... ok. ...it sounds better than the 70/80 ...but it does sound a little shrill and I've been tweaking the map for a half hour and I'm like, hmm. It's just "ok". Nothing special here.

So I hop on Celestion's website and YouTube, to research other speakers. I don't want to get into greenbacks and creambacks, and be sorting out all the "G, H, K... LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ versions, I just want to get somewhere quick. So I order the V-Type. I've heard good things, good sound clips, and Celestion mentions them as "balanced, a mix of vinatge and modern, and being especially good for solos to cut through".

So I orders me up a V-Type, toss in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up and after about 20 minutes, I'm like YAY!!!! I really like the speaker, ya know? So then I go through the same thought patterns we all do, like "should I replace ALL of my map speakers with V-Types across the board?" - 'cause I'm pretty excited, right?

But then...

But then, I go back out to YouTube and have a few more listens, and I discover there's another version of the V-Type that's supposed to be EVEN BETTER?? It's called the "Neo V-Type", and it's got "clearer this and warmer that", blah, blah, blah. I saw what's his name demo'ing it, and it does seem to sound a little nicer. (Although that guy can get great tone from 6 slices of moldy cheese.)

This feels like when I saved up for a few years to finally buy my Gibson R9 flametop Historic, and then 6 months later, Gibson came out with the new R9 TRUE Historic, and I was like, "so what have I got now, a not-so-true inferior Historic DAMMIT?"

So NOW WTF am I supposed to do? I can't just keep buying and returning brand new speakers back and forth to Amazon and Celestion all year, it bothers my conscience, see? But I want the best.

Can any of you people console me? Tell me the "Neo" version really isn't as good as it seems to be? 'cause you know that's what I really want to hear, right? But I feel like I just gotta know so I can be done with it, and it's bugging the carp out of me already.

Thanks.

The Neo is the BEST speaker ever! You cant LIVE without the Neo! Mortgage your house if you have to and buy a dozen!

Seriously though, do the research on the greenbacks and creambacks, that is the CORRECT answer.