Help Dating an old Marshall Cab

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by AudioWonderland, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    What indicators can I use to date an old Marshall cab without using speaker codes? For example, plastic handles vs metal. Grill cloth type. etc
     
  2. Hollowbody

    Hollowbody Well-Known Member

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    Well, first you need to offer to buy it a drink find out if it has a boyfriend, strike up a conversation and ask questions that lets it talk about itself and get it to open up a little....
     
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  3. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    :lol: :lol:
    I never worried about a boyfriend. I bought it a screwdriver to open it up...:)
     
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  4. Ken

    Ken Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty hit or miss. Metal handles make it very old and valuable. After that, all you can do is ballpark it by the markings, like if it has a JCM 800, 900 or other badging on the front and what the back might have in the style of speaker outs and badging. Type of grill cloth can also indicate an era but it's not going to be very percise.

    If you have a specific cabinet to date, post pics and I'm sure people can narrow it down.

    Ken
     
  5. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    Will have pics shortly. I have a couple I am looking to determining a time frame for
     
  6. Ken

    Ken Well-Known Member

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    Be sure to post a clear picture of whatever's on the back panel, along with pics the front.

    Ken
     
  7. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    roughly speaking:

    handles:
    strap handles on top - 1962/63 - 1967
    thin style metal handles - 67 - mid 68
    'normal' metal handles - mid 68 - late 71
    plastic handles - 72 onwards

    grill cloths:
    white cloth - 62/63 - mid 65
    pinstripe - mid 65 - v.early 68
    basketweave - 68 - spring 71
    large check - spring 71 - mid 70's

    after mid 70's some cabs seem to have small check and some have the usual black stuff, bit of a grey area for me. US cabs seem to be different to UK cabs.

    plastic corner protectors came in around 72 / 73

    birch backs stopped being used in spring 71, but a few cabs still seem to have them as late as 73 and 74.

    large center beam used until around 73.

    gold piping channels on the top and bottom of the cabs ended around 1979/1980. some mid 70's cabs & amps have white instead.

    tolex: (not exactly sure about these dates):
    small black grain - 62/63 - early 65?
    green on black levant- 65 - 67?
    'black' levant (actually very dark green) 67 - 75?
    elephant tolex 75/76 onwards?

    speakers:
    alnicos - 62/63 - mid 65 (usually H1777 cones)
    ceramic speakers with gold labels - mid 65 - late 65
    green covers - late 65 - mid 73 - (usually pulsonic cones)
    grey covers 73 -74 (various cones knocking about)
    cream covers 74 -75 (various cones knocking about)
    black covers late 75 - 80/81 (usually kurt mueller cones)
    no covers (G12-65's etc) - 79 onwards.

    :)

    you should not date your cab by the speakers alone unless you can be certain they are original to it (best to check for original solder joints and wiring). speakers are easily swapped. even period correct ones that match the date of the cab may not always be original ;o)
     
  8. GIBSON67

    GIBSON67 Well-Known Member

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    Good info George, thanks.
     
  9. eljeffebrown

    eljeffebrown New Member

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    Why date an old one, here's what's gonna end up happnin'. One night your gonna be at a bar, your gonna lose her and all your gonna end up hearing at the end of the night is "Aileen put yo shirt back on, yo titties look like two softballs in a couple of socks" and know no one want's that man!

    Date a newer one and do us all a favor! :wave:
     
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  10. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    I absolutely agree which is why I was looking for info on what to look for.
     
  11. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    That's kind of the plan. Have to dump the old girlfriends first though...
     
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  12. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    Here are the pics

    Cab1
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/1front.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/1inside.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/1left.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/1rear.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/1right.jpg

    Speaker Codes - 2x T1221 / HP177
    2x T1221 / LF16

    Not sure about this one. THe cab itself seems consistent with the other in being mid 70's but the top speakers date to '81. I suspect its mid 70's with the top speakers being replaced at some point


    Cab2
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/2front.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/2inside.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/2left.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/2rear.jpg
    http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/2right.jpg

    Speaker Codes - 1x T1221 / AF10N
    3x T1221 / AF12N

    Everything seems consistent with this cab being from early 1973.
    The codes on the frames were difficult to decipher in several cases. I could not find any codes on the cones themselves
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
  13. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    yeah both those cabs look to be from around 1973 - 1975, that kind of era.

    Jan 73 codes on the speakers in cab 2, probably originals. wiring looks original too in that cab so dont go cutting it or re-soldering anything. speakers should have pulsonic cones.

    cab 1, someone has drilled a load of big holes in the baffle. not good news. Im sure you are reading the codes wrong on those speakers. grey covers are usually from late 73 to 74. the code is probably something like HB or HF ('P' is more than likely incorrect).

    If it is HB it could be the code has been stamped back to front (not unusual) and the H represents 1975.

    If it is HF then it would be August 73. I think this is more likely than 75. I would expect a cream cover in 75. T1221 speakers from 81 would have black covers, unless the covers have been swapped. bottom left speaker with the sticker on it is probably a recone.

    the cab with original wiring and speakers is worth more because it is in its original state and looks in good condition for its age.
     
  14. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    The sticker on that speaker is just a barcode/price. I replaced the funky speakers that were in the bottom of that cab when I got it 15 years ago with period correct speaker that are in their now. Its been so long I had forgotten about that until I opened it up. I can't speak for the top pair either given the non standard wiring.
     
  15. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    I discovered the holes when I opened it up to replace the 2 bottom speakers 15 years ago or so. I wasn't happy about it and suspect someone was trying to "port" the cab garage style. That said it does sound good and is a little fuller in the lowend so maybe they were on to something. Still, not a great thing for resale unfortunately
     
  16. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    HF is probably correct then.
     
  17. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    you could always swap the baffle for one from a later, less valuable cab and fit some new check cloth on it.
     
  18. AudioWonderland

    AudioWonderland Active Member

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    Update

    Cab 1 Cone Codes - The top 2 speakers have a "3" in white ink on the cones. If my research is correct that should make them Pulsonic cones. The other 2 have no markings on the cones that I can find
    Cab 2 Cone codes - 3 of the 4 speaker cones are marked 102 3 which should make them original Pulsonics. The 4th has no markings on the cone that I can find
     
  19. george76

    george76 Well-Known Member

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    '3' and '102 3' are pulsonics.

    have you taken the speakers out to see the codes? sometimes the codes can be up near the center of the cone, only really visible by taking them out. or sometimes in faint ink making them hard to see.

    cones without stamps are common in 75 in my experience but in 73 I would expect something to be stamped on there...

    1777 cones are also fairly common in 73. Those are the last of the pulsonics in my opinion. Only the 1777 cones from late 75 onwards are Kurt Muellers. Quite a big difference in sound.
     
  20. teenixon

    teenixon New Member

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    Hey Marshallites, I have a 4x12 I believe is a '67'68. Story goes it was used to record "Brandy" by LookingGlass?? Serial number on back of cab is 25338. It has 3 out of 4 original speakers. the 4th is a newer greenback. all G12 25 watts. 3 original are blackback. Also I want to know what it is worth. If it's worth as much as I hope it is, It's for Sale... Thanks, Tee
     

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