G12CV sounding muffled with marshall amps, anybody else?

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by Filipe Soares, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    I posted a video above and it backs up what I said.
    There are people saying the same in this thread and I tell them my understanding.
    6k is not where it counts for guitar and at that frequency Celestion shows a 5dB difference, not 10, with their personal design.

    Again, it is my opinion and ear experience.
    I have found nothing guitar sound-wise that would make me dump any of my speakers for a Neo.
    I also stated "their designs" as in guitar related designs are lacking.
    I do not see Neo replacing ceramic or AlNiCo in guitar land at this point.
     
  2. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    Believe me, it is not that I did not want to like Neo but it is why I like AlNiCo best.
     
  3. Filipe Soares

    Filipe Soares Well-Known Member

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    well, I like discussions... this is starting to become a nice discussion.

    disclaimer:
    1) I play metal
    2) these are my first neo speakers
    3) I also had a lot of amps, guitars, have some experience bla bla bla

    I have a certain approach to guitar pickups, generally I compensate the overall tone with the pickup. if a guitar is bassier, I use pickups that have a little more highs, if the guitar are kind of high, I use bassier pickups. that´s the general idea.

    I´ve bought these speakers because 1) I was curious, 2) I wanted a 2nd 2x12 3) I wanted something different from what I was used and finally 4) I wanted something LIGHT.

    When I finished assembling the speakers I´ve tested with my 5150 and it sounds amazing, does not sound muffled at all. IMHO was a perfect match. by nature the 5150 does not present so much mid and high frequencies as the marshalls, so I thought ¨it might be a good match... a bassier cab with a more hi/mid amp¨. I was shocked how it sounded muffled, I´m not saying they´re bad speakers, but for my kind of sound they don´t get along with marshalls. that´s why I´ve created this thread: to see if anyone experienced something similar or if my speakers are damaged.

    In the end of the day I believe that for every guitar there´s a pickup, for every amp there´s a cab/speaker and we must trust our ears to find out what goes with what. When I return home I´ll try to put different speakers with the neos just to see what happends, but I have no intention to keep it up. I really loved owning a 2x12 that weights 28lbs (13kg)
     
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  4. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    Then use your Neo's with Eddie's Van Halen Amplifier.

    When I make my guitar recipes its is like this, I want every bit of range I can muster out of my equipment.
    I understand not everything can provide that or is perfect. I keep what gives what I want with specific combinations, kind of as you say @Filipe Soares.

    When it comes to my system the amplifiers, effects and cabinets provide the widest range I can get. My guitars are the only things that provide different character to my signal/sound.
     
  5. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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  6. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right here, it's all about finding the best combination of parts to achieve the sound you want for the type of music you play or specific tones you're chasing.
     
  7. Adieu

    Adieu Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried radical EQ settings like minimizing and maximizing?
     
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  8. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    I think the generally accepted discriptions of sound used on these forums are our biggest problem here. I trust a pile of gents saying this amp with this speaker is the bomb for this type of music. As soon as someone describes 20000 cycles worth of frequency response with their interpretation of such terms as presence, highs, low Mids, upper Mids, punch, loose bottom, tight bottom, warm, round, spiky, etc we're kind of in the weeds. Now all these terms are then distributed in someone's head for their situation. An Electric guitar is not a full range instrument. Peaple playing alone want it to be because that sounds better to us. Peaple playing in a band are trying or eventually realize they are searching for a much narrower band to achieve sonic bliss. Then you have their music style or styles. The guitars range magically increases when we add distortion so what a metal player classes as highs is not even perceivable to a blues or even a classic rock player. Folks that play it all can really struggle with speakers for this reason. I have also posted before about what folks call fizz. Some folks hearing dosent even extend well in this range genetically and by age or hearing damage alone but you can bet some of those folks post that a certain speaker or amp isn't fizzy. Some young buck comes along, reads this, spends a few bucks, gets disappointed and counter post how fizzy his speaker or amp is. I run sweeps on all my amps and speakers to cut out all the crap and help me get where I want to be faster. No harm ment earlier Mickeydg5, hopefully you see what I was trying to point out here. The guitar industry certainly enjoys $ us flopping around with these loose terms and miscommunications. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
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  9. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    Oh brother, your on to something big here. A good EQ in the loop is a professionals secret recipe. :)
     
  10. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    Take the speaker out and test if the cone moves in/out freely.
    What you are describing may be a damaged speaker.
     
  11. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I think the other problem with the G12CV is that so few people own one to give a valid opinion about it.
    Since I got mine I think I have seen 3 maybe 4 others on the MF respond that they own one too.
    Easy to get V30 and Creamback opinions.
     
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  12. mickeydg5

    mickeydg5 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly the Vintage 30 type and Century Vintage are similar, as they are supposed to be. I do not like the fact that V30 weighs more but to me they edge out ahead for what I like in its upper range a little better. The Century speakers have a lot going for them, especially the weight.

    Truth be told is that the EQ'ing mentioned above renders the agrument/discussion almost mute. Dial it in right with either speaker and they will both sound practically the same.

    I still like AlNiCo best. Did I say that already? :D
     
  13. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    What more can I say, we're insane. Merry Christmas! :cheers:
     
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  14. Filipe Soares

    Filipe Soares Well-Known Member

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    yes, ge7 in the loop. it can sound ¨normal¨ by boosting highs. but it does not match the marshalls.

    big fan here

    as far as I remenber, both cones moves freely. I´ll test it when I return home from the holidays.

    [​IMG]




    I don´t think they´re broken, they sound the same... 2 speakers with the same failure, soundind the same... anyways.

    my whole point here is ¨how the fuck a ¨muffled¨ speaker sounds better with a muffle amp?¨ it was supposed to sound even more muffled lol. I´ll use it with my 5150 and bring the g12h to the marshalls. but it was a surprise for me.

    v30s sounds good with the major with the mods, i don´t like how it sounds with the 2203kk.

    I´m still looking for something cheap and well built with g12t75s... I really like how they sound with marshalls.
     
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  15. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I have read that Kerry King favours the G12T-100.
    Could the 2203KK be tuned to work best with G12T-100s, and just be unable to mesh with the G12CVs?
    Is this a thing that can happen with speaker types, or am I making it up?

    I run my DSL40CR with the EQ flat except for treble at 1 O'clock.
    Pres, Res and Tone Shift are off, and the 16 Ohm G12CV is clear as a bell.
     
  16. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    Yep well did a quick search for your amp and the general consensus is 65's are the shit with this amp and v30's are not.. the CV's are as close to the v30's as you can get so...ya. SkyMonkey and I have ours in DSL's which are more modern and scooped so they work very well there and they mic up very well too. Like you said, you seem to have way too much of a good thing. Good thing is you found a good spot for them.. 65's would have been the perfect Christmas present it seems... Still got and hour and a half in my time zone to place your order ;-) Did you mention if your cab was closed back.. I assumed so but if it was open back that would add more Mids and low Mids (or high bass..whatever helps you read my mind lol) to the equation.
     
  17. JBA

    JBA Well-Known Member

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    "Is this a thing that can happen with speaker types, or am I making it up?"

    -Absolutely a thing.... For us sound obsessed brothers from other mothers.


    "I run my DSL40CR with the EQ flat except for treble at 1 O'clock.
    Pres, Res and Tone Shift are off, and the 16 Ohm G12CV is clear as a bell."

    -Almost identical settings here. With the CV installed this is the only amp I mostly run with flat settings. I ride the tone from 5-10 and volume 7-10 on my guitar to balance the channels or blend into rythem or stand out for lead. The only difference is I bump up the presence and resonance when I'm playing alone or with drums only. I drop both those off with the band and run my guitar tone a bit higher with the band.
     
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  18. Filipe Soares

    Filipe Soares Well-Known Member

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    Just got home yesterday and here I am after a extensive AxBxC testing with 3 different heads and 3 different cabs

    The cabs were:
    EVH 212 with G12H Anniversary
    My homebrew cab with 2x G12CV
    2x 1x12 with Vintage 30s

    the amps:
    5150iii 50w head
    2203kk
    Engl savage 60 (with Kt77s)

    Guitar ESP Eclipse 1 with BKP Painkiller/Rebell Yell

    My conclusions after 2 weeks away from guitars in general

    1) It does not sound nothing like a V30, there´s no harsh upper frequencies
    2) It does not as muffled as I remembered compared with the EVH cab
    3) It is more muffled than the V30s and the G12H Anniversary
    4) Sounds amazing in the 5150iii, if I add a EQ in the loop will be amazing (next test, tomorrow)
    5) the SPL difference between both 212 are quite noticeable, but the volume knob does the trick. more is more.
    6) due the volume difference you have to be careful in the assessment, because we usually think louder is better
    7) at the same level the muffleness is smaller
    8) Despite being great speakers I still don´t know if they´re the best speaker for me, and I´ll keep testing it
    9) I´ll swap the speakers in both 2x12 to check how much of the difference are because the cabs
     
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  19. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Can I ask the order of testing. Cranking the brighter speakers first may attenuate your high end hearing, making the following (less bright) speakers sound artificially duller.
    Possibly better to test in ascending brightness.
     
  20. Filipe Soares

    Filipe Soares Well-Known Member

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    I had no specific order, I was going back and forth with the cabinets. like playing the same riff in both of them, no specific order. and it was not in a volume that could ear fatigue me this quick. I live in an apartment, so it was loud enough to make me smile but not to disturb the neighbors.
     
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