Ebay is now going to ask for your SS# and send you a 1099-K

Marshall Stack

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Do you guys have to pay property tax in your state? We do and they keep coming out to assess the value so they can keep raising it.

Why do we let the government run itself into debt? Why can't they balance the budget? They need to start slashing stuff that isn't necessary for government like PBS, NPR, Endowment for the Arts and all the pork barrel projects. If people really knew what is in the bills they pass they could stop it then. We are giving money for gender studies in Pakistan. I'm not making that up. Why do we send so much aid to countries that hate us?

I also think we should have to write a check for our taxes once a week. Then people would realize how much they are giving and would start questioning the money they give to the government.
 

South Park

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the reason for government hand outs is the government can collect more then it gives out to fund ether things that don’t show up on the budget . When you see things like gender studies in Pakistan some government worker put that in some budget to see if some one is looking at it the money is thar for it but it is not spent .
 

Matthews Guitars

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If people were really thinking, we'd only elect people whose first agenda item is to abolish property taxes entirely.

Property taxes are the means by which government can "legally" confiscate land you bought and paid for in full. Just fail to pay the property taxes long enough,
and they kick you off it and sell it to somebody else.

That alone is adequate justification for revolution and overthrow of every government that uses property taxation.
 

MarshallDog

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If people were really thinking, we'd only elect people whose first agenda item is to abolish property taxes entirely.

Property taxes are the means by which government can "legally" confiscate land you bought and paid for in full. Just fail to pay the property taxes long enough,
and they kick you off it and sell it to somebody else.

That alone is adequate justification for revolution and overthrow of every government that uses property taxation.
Well, great thinking but that will never happen, people that vote are too stupid, just look at the way the majority votes!!
 

MarshallDog

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Do you guys have to pay property tax in your state? We do and they keep coming out to assess the value so they can keep raising it.

Why do we let the government run itself into debt? Why can't they balance the budget? They need to start slashing stuff that isn't necessary for government like PBS, NPR, Endowment for the Arts and all the pork barrel projects. If people really knew what is in the bills they pass they could stop it then. We are giving money for gender studies in Pakistan. I'm not making that up. Why do we send so much aid to countries that hate us?

I also think we should have to write a check for our taxes once a week. Then people would realize how much they are giving and would start questioning the money they give to the government.
Oh I live in NYS and yes we do pay a lot in property tax and the state is still broke and run by retards/idiots...ugh!
 

Calebz

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You guys want to add a layer of fun to the whole process?

Try being an American citizen, living outside the US, with 100% of your assets and income coming from foreign sources.

You haven't lived until you've tried it.

Oh - and I also pay a fuckload of taxes to the municipality and country I reside in.

I'm not going to get into how I feel about the actual tax money. This isn't the place. It would trigger entirely too many of you😄

I will say one thing though. I freaking hate paperwork. Paying taxes in 2 countries is an absolute assload of paperwork.😄
 

Obi Plexi-nobi

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If people were really thinking, we'd only elect people whose first agenda item is to abolish property taxes entirely.

Property taxes are the means by which government can "legally" confiscate land you bought and paid for in full. Just fail to pay the property taxes long enough,
and they kick you off it and sell it to somebody else.

That alone is adequate justification for revolution and overthrow of every government that uses property taxation.

Taxation is SLAVERY. We used it during the Empire to weaken planets before subjugating them using arms purchased with their own money taken through taxation.
 

PelliX

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You guys want to add a layer of fun to the whole process?

Try being an American citizen, living outside the US, with 100% of your assets and income coming from foreign sources.

You haven't lived until you've tried it.

Oh - and I also pay a fuckload of taxes to the municipality and country I reside in.

I'm not going to get into how I feel about the actual tax money. This isn't the place. It would trigger entirely too many of you😄

I will say one thing though. I freaking hate paperwork. Paying taxes in 2 countries is an absolute assload of paperwork.😄

I can imagine, I think. Try living in one country and working in another. In my case these were two EU member states, while I'm British (then also an EU member). Now I live and work in the Netherlands. Fine, but I have to pay into a pension plan that I'm not entitled to, when/if that time comes. Kafka would have had a field day...
 

Calebz

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I can imagine, I think. Try living in one country and working in another. In my case these were two EU member states, while I'm British (then also an EU member). Now I live and work in the Netherlands. Fine, but I have to pay into a pension plan that I'm not entitled to, when/if that time comes. Kafka would have had a field day...
I'm actually faced with the living in one EU country and working in another thing currently - but not for me. One of the girls that works for me moved to another EU country a year or two ago. We don't have an office in the country she's in. After a couple years, local and EU regs are making it complicated to keep her working under a legal contract without a massive tax hit to the company (and probably to her too).

Being an expert in EU/international employment contracts/taxes is way outside the scope of my training and experience 😳
 

MarshallDog

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So regarding ebays BS due to the Governments BS this is what my Accountant said is the best way to handle this.

Lest say I bought a new Gibson Les Paul Standard 6 years ago and it cost me 2500.00 free shipping. Maybe I have the original receipt maybe I dont but it does not matter. I now sell it on ebay for lets say 2000.00 because that is what the market will allow for. Now you have approximately 13% total fees (ebay add fees, ebat percent of sale fee, Paypal cost, shipping cost and even packaging costs along with mileage cost to take it to the shipper). He said keep all this documentation. When tax time comes the fair market value of the guitar was 2000.00 dollars and now we subtract all these other fees totaling lets say about 300.00 bucks. Well, you just lost money and that is what will be reported. So it wont cost you any additional income fees because you lost money right off the top.

Now if you bought some rare guitar or amp years ago and its now worth 10 times what you paid that may be another story especially if there are electronic records of the sale but then again I believe this tax from reporting is mainly for ebays on line stores that are actually making money are a real business and for people like us who sell a guitar, amp, pedals every so often it will just come down to more paperwork at the end of the year.

Its still all Bullshit IMO!
 

PelliX

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So regarding ebays BS due to the Governments BS this is what my Accountant said is the best way to handle this.

Lest say I bought a new Gibson Les Paul Standard 6 years ago and it cost me 2500.00 free shipping. Maybe I have the original receipt maybe I dont but it does not matter. I now sell it on ebay for lets say 2000.00 because that is what the market will allow for. Now you have approximately 13% total fees (ebay add fees, ebat percent of sale fee, Paypal cost, shipping cost and even packaging costs along with mileage cost to take it to the shipper). He said keep all this documentation. When tax time comes the fair market value of the guitar was 2000.00 dollars and now we subtract all these other fees totaling lets say about 300.00 bucks. Well, you just lost money and that is what will be reported. So it wont cost you any additional income fees because you lost money right off the top.

Now if you bought some rare guitar or amp years ago and its now worth 10 times what you paid that may be another story especially if there are electronic records of the sale but then again I believe this tax from reporting is mainly for ebays on line stores that are actually making money are a real business and for people like us who sell a guitar, amp, pedals every so often it will just come down to more paperwork at the end of the year.

Its still all Bullshit IMO!

Taxing private transactions, say between you and me for example, is debatable in any scenario. Let's say you have some amp that I would like to buy. You bought the amp new and paid VAT, I dunno, ten years ago. Then I come along, offer you 70% of the 'new in store' price today. How did the government contribute or facilitate the transfer of the amp to me or my money to you? If you don't come up with an answer, that's because there probably isn't one.

The roads between us for transporting said amp? Nope, road tax. The electricity used to discuss the transaction online before visiting and collecting? Nope, privatised. The banks involved (if we deviate from the cash route)? Private.

Although taxation is a legitimate method of generating income for the goverment, it's amazing how well the concept is exploited.
 

Bull Rock

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You pay tax on your pay, income tax, tax on fuel and food and whatever, all the hidden taxes already in stuff, property taxes, tax on cars over and over if being resold....it never ends.
 

PelliX

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You pay tax on your pay, income tax, tax on fuel and food and whatever, all the hidden taxes already in stuff, property taxes, tax on cars over and over if being resold....it never ends.

Income tax, as I mentioned earlier, is a solid design in socialism. I'm not an advocate of socialism, but let's leave that out of it. It's debatable in a modern so-called capitalist system. Fuel tax and VAT make sense to a degree as they relate directly to the purchase in question, not the capital at your disposal - which initially seems a more righteous way of doing it. Pay for what you use, etc. The rest is nuts - property tax is simply changing your purchase into a purchase and renting at the same time, without an option to buy, even.
 

middy

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Profit is considered income. This is nothing new. This tax was always owed. They just changed the reporting level and created a bunch of new paperwork for everyone.
 

PelliX

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Profit is considered income. This is nothing new. This tax was always owed.

Profit is income, but the question of income being taxable warrants some deep thought. Let's take the example above a little further: let's say MarshallDog has a ~2K amp. I wish to buy it from him, but he says he wouldn't part with it short of 10K. For some reason I concur and give him the 10K for his 2K amp. Should the government be able to tax that?
 

playloud

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Taxing private transactions, say between you and me for example, is debatable in any scenario. Let's say you have some amp that I would like to buy. You bought the amp new and paid VAT, I dunno, ten years ago. Then I come along, offer you 70% of the 'new in store' price today. How did the government contribute or facilitate the transfer of the amp to me or my money to you? If you don't come up with an answer, that's because there probably isn't one.

I don't really want to get into a political discussion, but there is a simple and serious answer to this which doesn't rely on "socialism" or adjacent ideologies.

There are external costs associated with maintaining the value of an asset, let alone creating an environment in which it is able to appreciate. It is hard to see a guitar amp having much value in a society with no electricity, or real property having much value if capricious warlords may sweep in at any moment, overthrow the local government, and assume control of said property. Technology stocks have little value without schools to educate future workers and even cryptocurrency is worthless without a vast, heavily govt-subsidized and -secured technological infrastructure (including electricity again!)

So the question is, who bears these costs? If not the asset holder, then they are effectively welfare recipients, freeloading off those who do. Of course, most asset holders will already be contributing in some way towards these costs via other means of taxation (sales tax, tax on other income etc.), but it seems a fair principle that they should also pay some tax in exchange for the additional benefit they receive from these costs being born in order to protect/appreciate the value of their individual property. (Of course, if one sees tax as a fundamentally redistributive vehicle - the role of which is to transfer capital from those deemed less deserving to those who are - then you could reject this argument, but I get the sense that this does not describe your personal position, @PelliX?)

Note I am not making any claims about the correct level of taxation on property, or even the basis on which it should be levied (e.g. taxing capital gains at time of sale, which is what is being discussed here). But I think it is clear that personal property is not some mythical entity which exists outside our existing economic commons, and if we are to live in a world in which at least some government revenue is required, the proportion of taxes which are contributed from property should be at least > 0%.

Now back to the issue at hand, taxing profits from peoples' personal guitar amp sales does seem petty and counterproductive!
 

junk notes

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recruited government collection agencies - that will get a lolly pop for their help?

These entities allowed access to our SSN? They must have Norton 1000 lol


That new fence will be broken down sooner or later.. lots of infiltration help from overseas pushing buttons..
 
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PelliX

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There are external costs associated with maintaining the value of an asset, let alone creating an environment in which it is able to appreciate. It is hard to see a guitar amp having much value in a society with no electricity, or real property having much value if capricious warlords may sweep in at any moment, overthrow the local government, and assume control of said property. Technology stocks have little value without schools to educate future workers and even cryptocurrency is worthless without a vast, heavily govt-subsidized and -secured technological infrastructure (including electricity again!)

Yes, true, but take electricity. Last time I checked, it's a private company supplying it on a government contract. Would we have electricity if the government didn't "make it a standard"? Yes, we almost certainly would. Capricious warlords roaming and overthrowing local government, etc? Sure, but does the government prevent that? In the case of most Western countries, yes, to a degree. It's not inherent to 'government' as such, though. If such events happen, generally some other government is backing the move.

Please don't see this as an argument, but more a devil's advocate point of view; you outlined that tech stocks and cryptocurrency would not be worth anything if he government did not subsidize tech infra. This is probably quite true, but what are subsidies? Subsisdies are the government selectively "punishing" certain entities or activities less than others. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anarchist, I believe in government, but to quote George Washington; "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." We all appreciate the benefits of fire in one form or another, but we generally also like to take some precautionary measures.

So the question is, who bears these costs? If not the asset holder, then they are effectively welfare recipients, freeloading off those who do. Of course, most asset holders will already be contributing in some way towards these costs via other means of taxation (sales tax, tax on other income etc.), but it seems a fair principle that they should also pay some tax in exchange for the additional benefit they receive from these costs being born in order to protect/appreciate the value of their individual property.

Well, for new sales, yes - valid points. For 2nd hand private exchanges? I think not, but perhaps we differ of opinion. Are people freeloading by owning a house on a piece of land that they bought? Not if they paid for it. It's not like the government keeps the continent from sinking or prevents natural catastrophes....

(Of course, if one sees tax as a fundamentally redistributive vehicle - the role of which is to transfer capital from those deemed less deserving to those who are - then you could reject this argument, but I get the sense that this does not describe your personal position, @PelliX?)

No, no, certainly not, indeed. I believe in taxation, just I think we use that tool way too often and also often too hard. Like Washington, I believe in goverment, but I also see the dangers if it gets out of control.

Note I am not making any claims about the correct level of taxation on property, or even the basis on which it should be levied (e.g. taxing capital gains at time of sale, which is what is being discussed here). But I think it is clear that personal property is not some mythical entity which exists outside our existing economic commons, and if we are to live in a world in which at least some government revenue is required, the proportion of taxes which are contributed from property should be at least > 0%.

I see what you mean, but how is the value of my property (say a guitar, amp, house or car) involved in the economy? It's not until I choose to sell it or use it. If an 'asset' is not on the market, it has no effective value until it is offered. Therefore, I don't see that any tax should be applicable until that moment.

:cheers: Time for a beer, though!
 

middy

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Profit is income, but the question of income being taxable warrants some deep thought. Let's take the example above a little further: let's say MarshallDog has a ~2K amp. I wish to buy it from him, but he says he wouldn't part with it short of 10K. For some reason I concur and give him the 10K for his 2K amp. Should the government be able to tax that?
The government has always considered that taxable income. “Should” doesn’t enter into it.
 


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