DSL20CR Speaker Inquiry

[SteelLucky]

Redback or Creamback 65

 

[leewaun]

Yeah definitely I'm trying to not get stuck in a loophole of just buying tone altering things

I'm honestly having a hard time between v-30 and creamback I like both

I like the smoothness of a creamback but the v-30 can cut through a mix very well

Yes I also put a v30 speaker in my DSL combo and it’s better. Actually all my amps have greenbacks in them. For a change I put vintage 30 in this amp.

 

[fitz288]

I'm trying to not get stuck in a loophole of just buying tone altering things

Um...., yeah..., good luck with that plan....

 

[C-Grin]

I agree that most speakers would be an improvement over the 70/80. But I myself went through a pile of speakers this year to come back to the first one I tried. And it’s the cheapest of the lot an Emminence GB 128. So you never know, good luck.

 

[Eskimo24]

Yes, Creamback 65 and to the forum.
The best way to find the best sounds and a great "core tone" with the DSL20 start with a really great (not necessarily expensive) attenuator, like the "build your own" @JohnH design, for about +/-$100, found here:

Simple Attenuators - Design And Testing

Summary: September 2019 This thread started with a few resistors to make a simple attenuator for valve amps, and then developed into multistage resistive and reactive designs. The latest designs work much better than I’d expected and have been built and tested by others. April 2020: After...

www.marshallforum.com

and crank both the GAIN and VOLUME of the CLASSIC GAIN channel all the way up! Then set the GAIN and VOLUME of the ULTRA GAIN channel to balance with that of the CLASSIC GAIN channel and find a suitable tone control compromise between the two! The real trick/key is finding a balance of two different sounds that can work with the same EQ settings!
Simply DSLin'
Gene

Thanks for the advice! I'll probably mostly be using distortion pedals rather than the actual amps distortion I do like the sound of the amps distortion but its not exactly what I'm looking for but I appreciate the knowledge

 

[Eskimo24]

Yes I also put a v30 speaker in my DSL combo and it’s better. Actually all my amps have greenbacks in them. For a change I put vintage 30 in this amp.

Have you tried a creamback inside it?

 

[Gene Ballzz]

Thanks for the advice! I'll probably mostly be using distortion pedals rather than the actual amps distortion I do like the sound of the amps distortion but its not exactly what I'm looking for but I appreciate the knowledge

Given that statement, you likely want to live on CLASSIC GAIN channel as described. With no pedals, that should get you just to the edge breakup. If that's a little to hot for your pedals, turn just the gain down a tad. The trick to getting great sounds out of the DSL20 is to get the tone of the power tubes into the sonic picture!
Just Enjoyin'
Gene

 

[Eskimo24]

Given that statement, you likely want to live on CLASSIC GAIN channel as described. With no pedals, that should get you just to the edge breakup. If that's a little to hot for your pedals, turn just the gain down a tad. The trick to getting great sounds out of the DSL20 is to get the tone of the power tubes into the sonic picture!
Just Enjoyin'
Gene

That sounds good thank you so much!

 

[Eskimo24]

@Gene Ballzz Do you recommend me to build my own attenuator or buy one?

Either one works for me I would just need some recommendations or your favorite building tutorial

I was thinking of getting this https://www.sweetwater.com/c1117--A...6eyJQcmljZSBSYW5nZSI6WyIkMTAwIHRvICQyMDAiXX19

 

[Seventh Son]

Another expensive but really cool speaker to check out is the Celestion Heritage G12-65. It’s what Marshall put in its standard cabs in the “80s, before it switched to the infamous G12T-75. The Heritage G12-65 is a reissue of that speaker. It has a very good midrange and an early treble roll-off, which complements the bright Marshall core sound. It’s a full, warm-sounding, and balanced speaker that has no obvious extreme flaws.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

@Gene Ballzz Do you recommend me to build my own attenuator or buy one?

Either one works for me I would just need some recommendations or your favorite building tutorial

I was thinking of getting this https://www.sweetwater.com/c1117--A...6eyJQcmljZSBSYW5nZSI6WyIkMTAwIHRvICQyMDAiXX19

In my sincerest opinion there is only one, DIY, passive design worth bothering with, and that is the @JohnH design that I linked in post #20 of this thread. The design blows all others out of the water in many respects, especially tone, feel and response retention. I recommend, for your use, a 16 ohm M2. And while that thread is not really a "tutorial" per se, all the necessary technical info is in the first post and nice layout diagrams show up around page #110 or #111. The whole thread is worth the read, and not as dauting as it looks, once you skim past some of the chaff and in depth technical discussions. Ther have been many additions of bells and whistles, like line out, etc. The thread is fairly active and a lot of folks willing to help, especially @JohnH himself.
Happy Buildin'
Gene

 

[Seventh Son]

Check out this link. I think you will find it informative.

Heritage Series G12 65 - Celestion Guitar Speaker

Heritage Series G12 65 - This guitar speaker is widely regarded as one of the best speakers ever produced for use in a 4x12 cabinet

celestion.com

This speaker comes in 8 ohm and 15 ohm. As stated on Celestion's website,

*Note that you can consider 15 ohm and 16 ohm speakers to be of the same impedance.

 

[Eskimo24]

Check out this link. I think you will find it informative.

Heritage Series G12 65 - Celestion Guitar Speaker

Heritage Series G12 65 - This guitar speaker is widely regarded as one of the best speakers ever produced for use in a 4x12 cabinet

celestion.com

This speaker comes in 8 ohm and 15 ohm. As stated on Celestion's website,

*Note that you can consider 15 ohm and 16 ohm speakers to be of the same impedance.

Thank you I will check this out!

 

[Eskimo24]

In my sincerest opinion there is only one, DIY, passive design worth bothering with, and that is the @JohnH design that I linked in post #20 of this thread. The design blows all others out of the water in many respects, especially tone, feel and response retention. I recommend, for your use, a 16 ohm M2. And while that thread is not really a "tutorial" per se, all the necessary technical info is in the first post and nice layout diagrams show up around page #110 or #111. The whole thread is worth the read, and not as dauting as it looks, once you skim past some of the chaff and in depth technical discussions. Ther have been many additions of bells and whistles, like line out, etc. The thread is fairly active and a lot of folks willing to help, especially @JohnH himself.
Happy Buildin'
Gene

I'll take a look!

 

[CVS]

Thank you guys all so much! Glad I wasn't going crazy and it was the speaker

I've been researching speakers and I'm thinking of going for a 75w Creamback for a replacement

Hoi,
I'm using that speaker (creamback G12H75 - 8 ohm) with my DSL20H - good quality and sound but give it a moment to work in !

 

[Seventh Son]

I just came across this super informative video and thought you might benefit from the information in it as you go about deciding what speaker to choose. I learned a lot from it.

 

[Moony]

Barefaced Alex has a lot of nice educational videos on his YT chanel.

But if you want to hear some speakers, go to the Zilla Channel or watch this one (insanely over 6 hours):

 

[Seventh Son]

I put the information in the video I posted above to the test today and compared the V30 versus the G12T-75. More specifically, the presenter in the video states that the G12T-75 was designed to accommodate the higher-gain music of the '80s by smoothing out the aggressive top end that using a lot of distortion produces. I used my DSL20HR for this test. Same cab, same placement, same everything. The only difference was the speaker. To really test the statement, I set gain on 7 on the Ultra Gain channel. With the V30, the amp sounded like an uncontrollable mess, due to the high frequency content of the speaker, but with the G12T-75, the amp sounded really calm. I actually had to dig in and really work hard to extract more sustain from every note, since everything sounded much drier and tighter through the G12T-75.

So, not only was the G12T-75 smoother, but also tighter in the bottom end, which was an unexpected surprise, since the V30 has a reputation for being a very tight speaker.

Another surprise was that the G12T-75 sounded much more present, whereas the V30 sounded a bit muffled in comparison. The difference was so big, that I decided to sell all my V30s. They are the wrong speaker for this amp and don't have the sound I am after. I have tried and tried and really wanted the V30 to work, as it should be the better metal speaker, on paper, but it never quite worked for me.

The relevance of this post to the OP is: I recommend avoiding the V30. The G12T-75 is a speaker that really pairs well with the DSL20. Any other speaker that is similar to the G12T-75 should also work well with this amp.

As many of you who know me from this forum know, I have been critical of the G12T-75 in the past, including very recently, but the experience today totally changed my view on the speaker. It also made me realize that the common complaints about the V30 having a harsh top end are justified and that I am not going to be the exception if I just work hard enough toward making the speaker work with this amp.

Now, keep in mind also that the G12T-75 is known for being harsh and bright. If the G12T-75 works pretty well with the DSL20, I can imagine that there are many other speakers that will be an even better match for it.

 

[Moony]

So, not only was the G12T-75 smoother, but also tighter in the bottom end, which was an unexpected surprise

Not really, there are others who also think the DSL20HR sounds good with T75 (and better than with V30s) - I've already postet that video on the first page of this thread.

 

[steveb63]

I put the information in the video I posted above to the test today and compared the V30 versus the G12T-75. More specifically, the presenter in the video states that the G12T-75 was designed to accommodate the higher-gain music of the '80s by smoothing out the aggressive top end that using a lot of distortion produces. I used my DSL20HR for this test. Same cab, same placement, same everything. The only difference was the speaker. To really test the statement, I set gain on 7 on the Ultra Gain channel. With the V30, the amp sounded like an uncontrollable mess, due to the high frequency content of the speaker, but with the G12T-75, the amp sounded really calm. I actually had to dig in and really work hard to extract more sustain from every note, since everything sounded much drier and tighter through the G12T-75.

So, not only was the G12T-75 smoother, but also tighter in the bottom end, which was an unexpected surprise, since the V30 has a reputation for being a very tight speaker.

Another surprise was that the G12T-75 sounded much more present, whereas the V30 sounded a bit muffled in comparison. The difference was so big, that I decided to sell all my V30s. They are the wrong speaker for this amp and don't have the sound I am after. I have tried and tried and really wanted the V30 to work, as it should be the better metal speaker, on paper, but it never quite worked for me.

The relevance of this post to the OP is: I recommend avoiding the V30. The G12T-75 is a speaker that really pairs well with the DSL20. Any other speaker that is similar to the G12T-75 should also work well with this amp.

As many of you who know me from this forum know, I have been critical of the G12T-75 in the past, including very recently, but the experience today totally changed my view on the speaker. It also made me realize that the common complaints about the V30 having a harsh top end are justified and that I am not going to be the exception if I just work hard enough toward making the speaker work with this amp.

Now, keep in mind also that the G12T-75 is known for being harsh and bright. If the G12T-75 works pretty well with the DSL20, I can imagine that there are many other speakers that will be an even better match for it.

Quite a statement....... hmmm.

I've ended up with Greenbacks, both H&M, with my DSL.

In all fairness, only owned it a couple of months presently.