Dsl1hr too loud- going to use additional attenuator

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by newtotubes, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. newtotubes

    newtotubes New Member

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    Hi All, long time reader, first time poster here.

    Due to pretty sensitive ears (tinnitus) I have been playing a strat unplugged for the last decade or so, never amplified.

    I recently saw the Marshall DSL1 advertised and thought I would try my luck as I love the sounds of classic rock and tube saturation (trower etc).

    I paired the DSL1HR with an Orange PPC112 1x12 cab and it sounds amazing on both channels, very warm.

    Due to how loud it is I am forced to play it using the 0.1 watt mode which still sounds excellent.

    The problem is due to my tinnitus I can never turn the volume knob beyond 1/4, and so I doubt I am ever really hearing the power tube getting to work, just the pre amp tubes.

    I have now purchased the Palmer PDI06 power attenuator in an attempt to be able to crank the amp up to higher volumes and drive the power section as well as the preamp, to achieve greater tones.

    Is there any reason why this won't work? I can always return the attenuator but I am quite excited about this idea.

    Look forward to your feedback- I am quite new to amplification so don't know too much about this subject.
     
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  2. ampmadscientist

    ampmadscientist Well-Known Member

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    You can use an attenuator, or you can use a less efficient speaker, no problem.
     
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  3. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I know you have already ordered the Palmer but a simpler/cheaper solution may be to put something like the JHS Little Black Amp Box attenuator in the loop. Cheaper than a full-on load attenuator (which may be overkill for that application) or a new speaker.
    256451-1513777478702.jpg

    In the UK the JHS is less than a quarter of the price of the Palmer.
    Passive, so no batteries or power needed.

    See how the Palmer works for you and please do report back.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  4. DLW

    DLW Active Member

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    I have not used that attenuator but any should work. I agree at looking at other speakers for 2 reasons......1 the Vintage 30 is a 65-70 watt speaker depending on who you ask. It is also known for having a spike in the upper mids I believe they call it which is hard on the ears of everyone even without tinnitus.

    The smoothest speaker I can think of for rock is a Celestion G12-65 or its cheaper copy the Warehouse Guitar Speakers ET-65. Those are still 65 watt handling capability but smoother on the ear.

    A Celestion Greenback would be a nice option at 25 watts handling.

    I also think looking into 10 or even an 8 inch speakers may work for your needs if a 12 does not.

    An attenuator is fine too and maybe EQ out some if the unpleasant frequency of the V30.
     
  5. RLW59

    RLW59 Well-Known Member

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    Putting a volume control in the loop is just adding another master volume. It's between the preamp and power amp and reduces the level going to the power amp, so it doesn't let you push the power tube any harder. It only lets you push the preamp tubes harder. (Which can sound great on many amps, but not what the OP wants to achieve.)
    ------------------------
    If you've already ordered an attenuator, certainly go ahead and try it.

    But I'd also vote for a speaker change. V30 is very efficient and I perceive the upper mid spike as sounding harsh and bright when playing at home. (Cuts through a band really well though.)

    Greenbacks and G12-65's are several dB's less efficient. That's almost like cutting the amp's power by half. Plus they're warmer, less spikey sounding.

    The PPC112 is a little boxy and pretty beamy (directional). An open back cab is more diffuse and your tinnitus may find it less piercing.
     
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  6. Matt_Krush

    Matt_Krush Well-Known Member

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    Output section of those amps are NOT* designed to produce distortion.
    All the distortion is preamp.

    EDIT: Thanks MM...yes that is what I meant..
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
  7. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    I think you meant "not" designed to produce distortion, maybe?
     
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  8. tce63

    tce63 Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    The Palmer PDI-06 is a great attenuator and will do the job, no problem.

    And :welcome: to the forum, a great place

    Cheers :cheers:
     
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  9. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Lots of good options above @newtotubes,....here’s what I recommend you try.

    A Weber MiniMass 50 watt Attenuator, it does a great job attenuating down to whisper volumes, better that the Palmer I’m told.

    And it’s very affordable $136!

    I use one with my SC20 and it works great. Hand made one by one as the orders come in,...here in the USA! This would be a much better choice than the Palmer imo.

    One of our members here @tce63 has both, maybe he’ll chime in and give his opinion. Best of luck with whatever you do.
     
  10. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Given the power section is a 12AX7, what would the difference really be attempting to push the power section over the pre amp?
     
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  11. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I think it’s a single 12AU7 in the power section, less gain than a 12AX7.
     
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  12. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    The DSL1HR has no master volume, so adding a JHS Amp Box would be introducing a master volume, not adding another one. It would allow finer control of the pre-amp section allowing the Power amp to be turned up. Also it lets you scale both channels evenly at the same time instead of having to readjust both when changing volume levels.

    Of course the Palmer will do all this too.
     
  13. Listogast

    Listogast Active Member

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    I feel like you might be better off using a digital amplifier interface on your PC. With an attenuator, you still miss out on things like speaker distortion and the air being pushed. However if you definitely want the feeling of a cranked amp, your best option would be to invest in a decent pair of musician earplugs. That way the amp isn't being limited by an attenuator and your ears are being protected.
     
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  14. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    because the power tube actually get's some power to it. I disagree that the DSL (any size) are not made to benefit from pushing the power section.

    The output tube is a ECC82. This amp runs a solid state PI. I have no experience w/ that, but, 1 thing I don't like about some of the high gain Marshalls, is that they load the PI w/ a lot of signal, creating a bottleneck that distorts, before the big glass does & in some cases drowns out the big glass effect.

    So, how the solid state PI reacts when it is overwhelmed, I have no idea, but, the attenuator in the loop, if pre-PI, might be a nice feature.

    There is no master volume:

    upload_2019-10-26_14-47-47.png

    Using a speaker line attenuator, along w/ the loop attenuator, might give you more flexibility...
     
  15. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Sorry, mixed it up.
     
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  16. RLW59

    RLW59 Well-Known Member

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    No master in the clean channel, but volume/gain on the gain channel. So yes, putting a volume control in the loop is an additional master for the gain channel.

    If he's wanting to crank the clean channel, yes a volume in the loop would be very beneficial.

    12AU7 is lower gain than 12AX7, but AU can push more current. So AU's are less stressed when used as power tubes and can last longer, with about the same wattage output as higher gain AX's.

    But preamp tubes aren't really power tubes. A volume control in the loop, attenuator, lower efficiency speaker -- the only way to know which approaches work best for a particular person's ears is to try them.
     
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  17. Deerhunter1972

    Deerhunter1972 Well-Known Member

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    I Second the Weber Mini Mass 50. I use one with my DSL20HR, and get great tone at bedroom volumes. I, also have the DSL1HR, but that is my practice amp and usually play it at 50% volume with no attenuator. At 0.1 Watt and 1/4 volume, it is very quite to my ears. I would try a different speaker. The Creamback will most certainly cut the volume. I bought one for my Avatar G112 to replace my G12T75, and it almost cut the volume in half. Unfortunately, I am in the minority and didn't like the tone of the Creamback at all paired with either of my DSL's. The G12T75 to my ears was pure Marshall Heaven and I sold off the Creamback. EQ-ing out the frequencies that bother you might help also.
     
  18. newtotubes

    newtotubes New Member

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    Thanks for the replies everyone. The attenuator arrives tomorrow so I will test it out then.

    Changing the speakers sounds like a good idea...I've heard a lot of good things about Greenbacks, and if they are quiet in comparison to V30s that will be a bonus. Also I read they break up/saturate at lower volumes..although I likely won't be pushing them hard enough to do that- ideally volumes of no more than 75 db is my target.

    I've been cosidering selling my Orange cab and replacing with the Marshall 1960ax cabinet- if nothing else it looks cooler, and comes equipped with greenbacks
     
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  19. DLW

    DLW Active Member

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    They definately look cool but 4 speakers even greenbacks means a lot more volume. A 1 twelve cab with Greenback turned away from you might get you enjoying playing more and for longer time periods.

    When we start looking at money for amps, speakers, cabs, attenuators. I cant help to think that if I had tinnitus I would consider selling what I have and get a Kemper or an AXE-FX unit and a lower power monitor or modeler powered speaker.
     
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  20. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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