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DSL100 with or without MV?

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by Home Player, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. Home Player

    Home Player New Member

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    I found a good price on a DSL100 without the master volume. As my name implies I play at home so while the master volume would be good I'm more concerned with the EQ refinements I read were made to the amp when the master volume was added. Am I better off getting the pre or post master volume edition, all things considered?
     
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  2. johan.b

    johan.b Well-Known Member

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    As far as i know or ever heard, all DSLs have a master volume on at least the drive channel. Even the smallest 1 watt version
     
  3. slagg

    slagg Well-Known Member

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    DSL Non Master = No such monster
     
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  4. RLW59

    RLW59 Well-Known Member

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    There have been multi-page arguments about this.

    Some people define "master volume" as a knob that controls all the channels at the same time, like the newer DSL100's have.

    Other people consider any amp that has at least one channel with pre/post volumes to be a master volume amp.

    For a home player, a global master that controls all the channels isn't that important. It's useful on stage, when you've got the channels perfectly balanced and the club owner yells "turn it down" (or the audience yells "turn it up"). You can turn one knob, and not have to go back and forth between the channels trying to re-balance them.

    But at home, having to adjust the channels separately isn't a big deal.
    -------------------------
    Besides the re-voicing and added features of the new DSL100's, another concern about the JCM2000 DSL's is that the first years had defective bias boards. Many were fixed under warranty, but if it's a pre-2005 model it may have hidden issues.
     
  5. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    Marshall themselves seem to be pretty clear on the Master Volume thing when they label the DSL front panels.

    The JCM2000 DSL series DO NOT have Master Volume labels on any pots.
    The DSL100H/40C series DO NOT have Master Volume labels on any pots.
    The DSL100HR/40CR series DO have Master Volume labels the Dual Global Master Volumes pots.

    The JVM's get Channel Volumes and Global Dual MV's too.

    But then it all goes awry with the labelling of their other amps.

    The SC20 gets Preamp Volume and Master Volume for a single channel amp, but no Gain knob.
    The SV20 gets Loudness knobs and no Gain or Volume.
    The Single channel Origin gets a Gain and Master Volume.

    The MG's are back to Channel and Master Volume.

    :wallbash:

    It's no wonder there are disagreements over what constitutes a 'Master Volume' these days.

    To my mind a Master Volume controls the Global output of an amp, be it single or multi channelled.

    The confusion for me is that calling a Volume a Master conjures up the impression that there are multiple other 'prior' volume variables that are Globally controlled by a Master Volume.
    This is so with the DSL100HR, where Channel Volumes are in play.
    But not with an Origin! We are always told that Gain is NOT Volume.

    Anyway. Welcome to the MF @Home Player :welcome:

    By all accounts, the EQ of the latest 100HR model is far better as a Shared EQ across all channels than the 100H.
    I have the 40CR, and find this to be largely so.

    Also, the DSL100H volume discrepancy between the (quiet) Clean and (louder) Crunch can only be 'automatically' negated by never switching between the two.
    You would have to stop playing anyway, and walk up to the amp, then physically press the front panel button to do this!

    The newer DSL100HR has a similar discrepancy, but you can assign the Green MV to the Clean, and all others to the Red MV.
    Balance them up, and forget about the problem (until you need to change overall volume at the behest of a sound engineer!).
    That is how I set my 'Home Use' 40CR. I even have the PEDL-91016 to switch all channels and MV's (but rarely use it). The 100H cannot do this.
    I then have a 'Pre-Master' Master Volume on the Boss GT-100 that I fine control it all with, in 4CM + MIDI switching.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
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  6. FracStrat

    FracStrat Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Wow Sky !!
    Crossed “T”s and Dotted “I”s !!!
     
  7. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    Is it safe to say an amp that gets its gain from the preamp is a master volume amp, and an amp that gets its gain from the power section is a non master volume amp. Therefore any DSL is a master volume amp regardless what the knobs are labeled.
     
  8. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom >>> Moderator <<< Staff Member

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    that's not technically correct...

    NMV amp's get plenty of pre-amp gain, but, it gets introduced when the power tubes get cooking, so they come up together, rather than the pre being able to distort, at all volumes...
     
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  9. scozz

    scozz Well-Known Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Absolutely buddy, there's some confusion as to what exactly a Master Volume is. My first gigging amp was a 1972 Fender Super Six Reverb 6-10 100 watt combo, it had what I believe is a real master volume. Everyone is familiar with Fenders controls face, 2 channels, Normal and Vibrato, each with it's own volume control and eq section. The Super Six Reverb has the same familiar face, with one exception, there is a master volume all the way over to the right side of the face. You can see it in this pic of the Vibrato channel, it is a master volume in the sense of a global volume for both channels.

    [​IMG]

    Today the term is used in different, and sometimes confusing ways, as my buddy @SkyMonkey pointed out. So, these days I’m not exactly sure what people mean anymore, when they say master volume. If has become slightly confusing, at least to me,…. and apparently some others too!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
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  10. Mitchell Pearrow

    Mitchell Pearrow Well-Known Member VIP Member

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  11. Gene Ballzz

    Gene Ballzz Well-Known Member

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    Repeatedly using terminology incorrectly, "in different, and sometimes confusing ways" doesn't make that usage correct! I firmly believe that the phrase: "A lie told often enough becomes the truth" is the biggest farcical lie ever uttered! @SkyMonkey & @scozz are bright folks and the world has a whole buch of "less than bright" folks. I still run into folks who read/pronounce "Seinfeld" as "STEINFELD" as a glaringly comical, yet accurate example!
    I Better Shut Up,
    Gene
     
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  12. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    For the sake of the OPs question it is irrelevant. Home use it makes no difference if it has a global volume (which is perhaps a far more accurate term) or not.
    Any amp with a pre amp volume or gain and another overall volume for that channel is a master volume amp IMO.
    As per the label on the single channel 800s. Master volume as in an overall output level control besides an initial volume ro get some gain or distortion as opposed to something like the SV with a single volume knob. No master. Just a single volume. That is a NMV amp.
    It is semantics. Call it whatever you want. The Mesas often call MV Output which is more accurate IMO.
     
  13. Guitar Rod

    Guitar Rod Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring the whole master volume/channel volume/volume volume debate, if you are getting a great deal on the DSL100H, go for it. I'm a home player with a JCM 2000 DSL 50 and a DSL40C, and I don't miss the overall master volume at all. Each channel has a gain and master volume. You'll be fine without the additional overall master and get great sounds out of it at all levels of volume. Marshalls for decades were fine without it too.
     
  14. Neptical

    Neptical Well-Known Member

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    Never understood the whole MV debate. ANY amp that can crank out several DBs is MASTAH VOLUME.
    Let's get down right dirty in the facts folks.

    :drunk::flex:
     
  15. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom >>> Moderator <<< Staff Member

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    Let the VOLUME! be the master!

    I like that! :wave:
     
  16. tallcoolone

    tallcoolone Well-Known Member

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    I lugged one of those boat anchors around for a few years—every time you post pics of yours I get flashbacks lol. That was one loud mf’ing amp!
     
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  17. gregr

    gregr Well-Known Member

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    The perceived level difference between clean and dirty depends on how loud they are. Depending on how much you change the master you may also have to adjust one of the channel volumes.

    If the idea is to help you poke out a little more I prefer a mid boost.
     
  18. Home Player

    Home Player New Member

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    Thanks for the answers and welcomes. Sorry I disappeared after asking. Busy days.

    As it turns out, I found an even better deal on a JVM210H and went for that. It should be here in a few days. I'm stoked! :dude:
     
  19. gregr

    gregr Well-Known Member

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    Nice.

    I scored a JVM2 two weeks ago for a killer deal. I had a JVM4 a while back and missed OD1 Orange. I think l did the OD2 to OD1 mod before I even plugged it in. Then I began work on changing Clean Green into a proper clean channel.

    Now I’m also modding the gain and/or voicing of all the modes, except for possibly Crunch Orange. I fell into the rabbit hole. Through it all OD Orange will pretty much stay the same except for a gain reduction and warming it up/smoothing it out just a tad since the amount of gain I like to use is now farther up on the control, which reduces the effect of the bright cap.

    Probably over-sharing, but I’m pretty stoked about it.
     
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