Constant talk of volume

Discussion in 'Marshall Amps' started by jleftyy, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. BftGibson

    BftGibson Well-Known Member

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    Pretty wild result tonight. Wanted to hear the Mesa Triple Rec into Marshall DSL 100h..slaved it out.

    They are 16' apart in my room. Sounded huge & the DSL with the Recto preamp sounded massive !.huge tight bottom with a mid smack !! Anyways after the initial wow..started turning it down..volume as i turned down..it seem loud even tho it was real low. Then turned DSL off & just recto was on. The level on its own was barely on. But with both on..it was perceived as loud. Very comfortable with both rigs on at same time vs 1 of em. Was able to run 2 together at a lower level but yet it seemed louder.When i got positioned exactly between them..just amazing. Won't do this a lot, but it sure did sound good. Going to run that recto pre into the Marshalls tomorrow..think i found what i have been chasing,
     
  2. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    But dont get me wrong man. I f I lived in a house removed from the neighbors by myself, well, the 4x12 etc would get used waaaay more. I woild like to run all my amps at once!! It just isnt feasible here gigging in most cases I should add.
     
  3. junk notes

    junk notes Well-Known Member

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    @jleftyy :applause:
     
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  4. trax1139

    trax1139 Well-Known Member

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    A professional sound system is for reinforcing your sound...not creating what you may lack.
     
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  5. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    Myself, I just play for fun in my basement with my big bad Marshalls, and that is all. Thats all I can do for now...
     
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  6. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    No offense, but isn't that just stating the obvious? Pretty sure most everyone here already knows that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  7. CROWEMAG

    CROWEMAG Well-Known Member

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    I share a rehearsal space with 4 of my best friends and band mates. The rest of the band does not utilize the space unless we are having a full band rehearsal so it is wide open for me to use any time! I get to blast my Marshall's any day, any time. I am lucky to have that ability. At home I keep an 800 and 4X12 in my "office. It does a great job at low level jamming. Love it.
     
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  8. Most_Triumphant

    Most_Triumphant Member

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    A 4x12 or larger is overkill for 95% of venues these days. I use a closed back 2x12 on a kickback stand allowing it to point at my head. Even that is pretty tight on most bar and club stages. Most gigs that I play at we need to bring our own PA. What we usually do is have the amps up loud enough that 50% of what FOH sounds is the guitar amp and 50% is coming from the PA. On my amps, that translates to about 70% on a 25 watt Mesa or 20 watt Marshall which means a decently loud stage mix. Plenty loud to hit the sweet spot and loud enough to be heard over a loud drummer. By loud drummer, I mean a drummer who can play modern punk and metal--not the loud (but quieter) rock drummer. Most of the gigs I play (>300 people usually) have stages that people aren't directly in front of. Lots of these stages have side seating so we need the PA to disperse the sound and can't rely on super loud amps aimed forward. You can get away with being louder if the sound is mixed well, but in my experience, running the amps full up and aimed forward is not conducive to a good mix. Actually, most of the bands that I've seen where everyone has huge stadium amps that don't get mic'd end up sounding pretty bad. They're all more concerned with how loud and big they can sound individually that they forget to sound like a band. There is a reason why no professional bands do it that way anymore.

    As for the popularity of playing at home levels, there are a couple reasons: No one wants to hear you spend 45min working out the solo to a song at a painstakingly slow tempo. Only guitarists love the sound of a cranked amp by itself out of context for more than 4 minutes. Neighbors and family members exist. You can get good thick sounds at much lower volumes these days.
     
  9. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    50% guitar amp out front sounds like a lot. With guitar amps being very directional, doesn't that mess with your FOH mix a bit?
     
  10. Sustainium

    Sustainium Well-Known Member

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    It’s great learning what experienced players are doing to get their sound out to the crowd and what not to do also. Have you posted any clips of your band performing on stage, it’s always fun seeing members with bands perform.
     
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  11. Most_Triumphant

    Most_Triumphant Member

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    I am usually playing smaller venues where I can get away with it. In my experience, dancers like hearing the band more raw when they're up close. Not sure why, drunk people are funny that way. If we have a FOH sound man, he's usually within 100ft of the stage which isn't very far. At that distance, the guitar amps on stage blend and disperse better. We don't aim our amps straight out from the stage, we aim them slightly towards the middle so that the sound waves intersect out in front of the stage where the majority of people will be. For the audience that is off axis, the pA we have aimed to that side are set louder to help with filling the sound. When we play larger venues or outside, the PA takes much more of the heavy lifting.
     
  12. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Mine must be close to that, venue dependent. We use FOH to get my amp more on the other side and vice versa.
     
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  13. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit here that in the last band I gigged with, running a 412 was getting complaints in bars and small clubs. I don't know what the big deal is really. I have pretty sensitive hearing, and I crank up 40-50 watters when I can in small room at home. But all the high mid reflections and low frequency buildup can ruin that a bit, so I do my cranking in an outside workshed with thin walls that lets lots of that stuff pass right through.
     
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  14. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Ours is probably more 80% or 90% PA out front, stage volume coming from the sides, set where we like it. Whatever works, works.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  15. Dmann

    Dmann Well-Known Member

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    In my experience sitting in the crowd and also running sound in bars and small clubs, it's because of the beaming of the cone of deaf, not necessarily the level of volume, and all it takes is one person complaining to the bar to smear your rep and get you pre-judged for every future booking.

    how have you dialed in your sound?

    Grab a 25ft or longer speaker cable and a looper pedal.
    Set up the cab across the room from you, like you are sitting first row/ front tables in the bar, and while having that 412 pointed at your head, record a loop and dial it in that way.

    Another option is if you are dead set on your current dial in, use the cab as a side fill so it's pointed across the stage, instead of out toward the audience.

    further, if you want to push the cab a bit more without it seemingly being louder, grab a plexiglass shield (AKA beam blocker), and place in front of the cab.
     
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  16. WellBurnTheSky

    WellBurnTheSky Well-Known Member

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    On smaller/mid-size clubs (200 to 500-ish people standing) you have a hard time covering everything with the PAs you get. Either they're stacks (or sub/head with a pole in between) and you have a hard time covering the back of the room, or they're hangs/arrays and you have a hard time covering the center front of the room, especially if the stage is on the wider side.
    Kinda makes sense, as unless you have quite a big PA, chances are, there's quite a big dead zone straight in front of the stage (which is why we use front fills in bigger setups, especially with line array hangs).
    So no matter what, usually people standing right in front of the stage get more stage sound (amps and wedge monitors, maybe side fills, even though you don't see them too often in clubs) than PA anyway, in that scenario. But move back a few meters, and you'll get inside the PA coverage, and the first few ranks will dampen stage SPL significantly (human bodies are a rather marvelous sound dampener).

    Which btw is why you NEED a FoH guy to sound good. If you dial in your sound in an empty room, you're guaranteed that the mix (especially the stage/PA ratio) will be completely off once you fill the room with people. Not even accounting for the change in temperature/hygrometry/air pressure (which have a pretty dramatic impact on sound propagation). There's no way around it.
     
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  17. marshallmellowed

    marshallmellowed Well-Known Member

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    That is our typical approach. Allows us to leave the stage volume alone, and go from loud to very low volume out front. This is when we're running our own sound, and can't rely on a dedicated sound man. So far, it's worked pretty well for us.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  18. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    200 people here is a large club. Most of these have tables too and a smaller dance floor area.
    When we do our own sound in larger places we have FOH speakers on stage pointed to centre for the close up people.
     
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  19. Jethro Rocker

    Jethro Rocker Well-Known Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Probably because the club managers want their staff to be able to hear drink orders. Also if it is loud enough to cause discomfort in order to hear vox over guitars, it makes for a less than pleasant experience.
     
  20. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    In the smaller places it seems to be about the overall volume really. And getting a 412 up to a sweet spot means bringing everything else up with that. That seems to be the overall problem, because of what you said.
     

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