Considering a Ceriatone Plexi 51

Discussion in 'Other Amps' started by What?, May 10, 2020.

  1. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if that is dependent upon volume and playing style. And do you know what rectifier tube is in your stiletto? The Plexi 51 came with a JJ. I have read accounts by some people saying that some particular rectifier tubes do make a difference in sound, where others don't. And then other people say that the choice of rectifier tube has almost zero effect on the sound. Guitar playing is all pocket draining madness I tell ya.

    On another note, I'm reading that new capacitors might take around 100 hours to break in. More madness.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  2. Buzzard

    Buzzard Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about what tube rectifier is in it.
     
  3. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Stiletto's run a 5U4, where the Plexi 51 runs a 5AR4/GZ34. The latter being very stiff among tube rectifiers. Even the bit of give that I feel at higher volume is minor.
     
  4. Buzzard

    Buzzard Well-Known Member

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    I don't know alot of technical things about amps but I wonder if the plexi 51 can use the 5u4?
     
  5. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I don't know much either. I read that some amps which use a GZ34 can use a 5U4, but I guess it is dependent upon how much current the amp's power transformer can supply. Sounds like a question for Nik. He is very responsive to questions.

    Something to keep in mind here is that <apparently> whether a given rectifier actually changes the sound of an amp or not is dependent upon whether it changes the voltage supplied to the amp. In other words, it isn't the rectifier where the sound is changing. It is the change in voltage caused by a particular rectifier. And <apparently> there are other ways to go about causing that change. So in the case of your amp, when you switch from solid state to tube rectifier, there is a significant change in voltage causing a change in the sound. And in the case of my amp, there is likely relatively little change in voltage and so no perceivable change in sound. And if you like sag, <apparently> a sag resistor can be used to provide that. Just throwing out some stuff I have read today on the topic.
     
  6. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I found that Malcolm tone in this amp today. Woo hoo! It might seem like such a simple thing, but I have tried to get this tone with other amps, and it was always a crap result. There it is though. No special pickups, tubes, speakers, microphones, and zero processing. Just a plexi with an sm57. Clean with just a little bit of metallic bright cracking breakup to it.

    You'll have to forgive the noise. Fluorescent lights, pool pump, etc. Not exactly a good environment for recording.

    https://app.box.com/s/m6pva4iyybhhtr6qs2bcsvomcv4wavro

    Go listen to Live Wire for a reference.

    And for the little more gainier AC/DC stuff, upping the gain just a bit brings it on. I could post another clip if anyone is interested in that. I'm stoked to find that stuff in this amp. Plexis rule!

    Also, this was the best I could do with my DSL50 after much trial and effort a couple of years ago. Recorded in better conditions, two tracks with bass. The breakup just sounded not right and that amp doesn't get nearly as bright.

    https://app.box.com/file/294136225502?s=7ufz92o4gzxltmi2n488sg1dx49acyya
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
    2203xman and iwuk78 like this.
  7. malice95

    malice95 Active Member

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    Thanks for posting all the sound samples and your feedback What? Now you got my all excited to get this thing! Dammit.. Patience.. Must have Patience.. Got any Led Zepplin in it?
     
  8. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Funny you should ask. Maybe I'm the only one here who is isn't a big Led Zeppelin fan. I do like some of their songs, Bonham's playing, and Page's playing. I never was a fan of their sound, Plant's singing, or Jone's playing. But in tinkering with this amp I kept running into what I thought was a Page sound, trying to steer away from it for a brighter and crunchier sound, which I did figure out. When I hear Page's sound I always think Marshall bass spec, although I have no idea what his rig was. If you can mention something specific to shoot for that likely wasn't using a pedal I'll give it a go.
     
  9. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    The sound that I'm thinking of that I was trying to steer away from is Whole Lotta Love. I think a fuzz was used on that one though. Which reminds me, I haven't tried a fuzz with this amp yet.
     
  10. malice95

    malice95 Active Member

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    Black Dog:)
     
  11. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    It's getting late here now, but I'll take a stab at it tomorrow. That is that reedy tone that I mentioned further back in the thread. Sounds like the bass spec plexi to me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  12. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    malice95, this should be of interest to you:
    I'll still give it a go though. It seems like the best shot someone might have at doing that with a guitar amp would be with some sort of fuzz pedal such as a Maestro.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  13. 2203xman

    2203xman Well-Known Member

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    Like the Malcolm tone.I was hoping it would do this sound.A great tone for a bunch of songs.Hope to have mine before chrstmas.
     
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  14. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I listened to it again today. I should have added just a touch more gain (channel volume) and aimed for a little more bottom for the recording. Also, I think a condenser mic was probably used for his recorded sound. If I'm not mistaken they used a Neumann U67 on that album of which there are tons of clones these days. A real U67 costs considerably more than my whole guitar rig. But in person it sounds very close to that Malcolm thing. It's loud though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  15. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    I gave the Black Dog sound a good half hour effort. I didn't learn the riff (lazy), so this is just winging it from impression of listening to it a couple of times. Straight up mono recording with a fuzz pedal with just some stereo reverb added afterward.

    https://app.box.com/s/vvek3jjw2914mr22ubcz9duajrflg0dw

    For reference:



    I think it isn't too awfully far away, considering that I'm using a plexi clone and a fuzz, and he was using a mixer and some solid state compressors (no amp).
     
  16. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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  17. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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  18. neikeel

    neikeel Well-Known Member

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    You are getting closer:agreed:
    Black Dog is not that distorted more crunch with bridge pup all the way.
    You have to be able to hear the vibrato on the C of the G string in the way up through the riff and be able to then let the chords ring. Suggest you drop the doubler/harmoniser effect.
    Edit, I just listened to the remaster and it is double tracked!

    Stock plexi (JTM45 through 12 series) will do it nicely, your 51 will have gain and fuzz to spare
    More please!
     
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  19. What?

    What? Well-Known Member

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    If you listen to Page's early live sound on Black Dog, it sounds very different than the album. I'm convinced that he didn't use a plexi (or an amp at all) on the album. Live, it sounds like he used the inbetween pickup position a cranked up amp (a 1959) just over the edge of breakup and a Tone Bender. No way that is a guitar straight into an amp. Watch this:



    I have a terrible fuzz and an ok fuzz. I'll give the terrible fuzz a run tomorrow and see what it gives. I should probably go ahead and learn the riff too instead of just winging it.

    By the way, I wasn't using a doubler effect. That was just the sonic result of super sloppy playing. :applause: I couldn't hear the previous track in my headphones when doing the second track, so the really loose timing between the two caused that 'effect'. The headphone amp on my portable recorder blows. It just doesn't have enough output for tracking loud stuff, getting drowned out by the loud thing being recorded. I need to get my recording computer back in order for this sort of stuff, but it's low priority right now.

    Here is someone nailing that sound using an 1176 plugin. No amp. There are lots of illusions in the recording world. I wonder if Jimmy Page used a plexi at all on any of those tracks back then. I know that he was using some small combo amps, which has been very common in studios for a long time.

     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  20. Buzzard

    Buzzard Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling that back in the day they favored small amp or no amps in the studio and the out of necessity used the big amps live because they flat out had to.
     

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