Chibson Les Paul:

El Gringo

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more & more, the counterfeiting is getting into the mainstream marketplace...

But, that's because we allow it in other places, such as the Chibson. What I mean, is, that a good percentage of consumers have accepted it, as a low price alternative.

Now, you have sites like WISH, that advertise on social media, & offer stuff for a fraction of what it costs the legit mfgr's to produce.

For instance, I'd always see Marshall headphones on there, for around $30, whereas the Marshall™ branded headphones are around $100.

On facebook, I get ad after ad about some technology, or other good, that I could use in everyday life. Lately, I've seen a bunch of stereo equip. Like turntables selling new for less than $100. When I do a search on the turntable, I notice that one goes for $8,000-12,000.

Then I see another item, that is $69, but, the real deal doesn't sell for less than a few hundred dollars.

Hell, I just saw an ad for a 20 piece Dewalt tool set for $99

https://duoraface.com/products/dewa..._NgMrwy-_WttvRJba2SAJ4gYNT30qsjEYyufnUNuPaWw8

a633ddbc0011ffa33ddb5c01bad5361589814de2_1000x1000.jpg


yeah right...

either it's 100% scam, or fake goods (counterfit)
Then how long will the fake goods work or until they break and no longer work ? That will happen , it's just when it will happen ?
 

pedecamp

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If you were to put your hands on the parlor guitar I bought a little over a year ago, you would think otherwise. I'm telling you, it arrived perfectly in tune, has super low action without me ever adjusting the truss rod, saddle, or nut, and it's beautiful.

Sure, it can be a crap shoot as to what you get, but the Chinese are indeed making some great guitars these days.
Not from aliexpress, I've got two of them to prove it.
 

StrummerJoe

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I understand your feelings, but let me clarify something. This guitar, once it arrives, will NEVER leave my possession. If I decide I don't like it, selling it is NOT an option. Because even if I make it clear that it's a counterfeit, the next person might not be so honest. Once it's out of my hands, I no longer have control of that. So if it totally sucks, I'll either stick it in storage or hang it on the wall as a decoration and call it a lesson learned.

I also will never give it away. I see it as a replica of the real thing, and the last thing I'll ever allow is to have it hanging in a pawn shop somewhere listed as a 1961 SG for $2599.00. I will seriously smash it to bits before ever letting it leave my hands.

Having said that, let me also say this. I'm not into Gibson. I never have been except for a very brief period back in the 80's when I thought I wanted a Les Paul (long story). Therefore, I would never spend the money for a 1961 SG or even a reissue. Therefore, Gibson isn't out anything. And if I were into Gibson, I would play nothing but the real thing.

I'm into Jackson and Carvin/Kiesel mostly. For that reason, I would never buy a fake Jackson or Carvin/Kiesel, and there are plenty of counterfeits of them out there.

One other thing... if for some crazy reason I were to totally love this guitar, then at some point I'll break down and buy the real thing, which I wouldn't have done otherwise.

Does that make sense?
Regardless if you never give it away, sell it, or smash, burn, drown, electrocute, or run it over with a bulldozer - the one time purchase supports the counterfeiters and encourages them to continue because now you have contributed to their profit.

I hope that makes sense.
 

PowerTube44

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Not from aliexpress, I've got two of them to prove it.
I have one that clearly proves otherwise. It's an acoustic, but still....

I'll post an update when my Chibson SG arrives.

EDIT: Did I understand you correctly? Were you saying that the makers on AliExpress DO or DON'T make good guitars?
 

PowerTube44

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Regardless if you never give it away, sell it, or smash, burn, drown, electrocute, or run it over with a bulldozer - the one time purchase supports the counterfeiters and encourages them to continue because now you have contributed to their profit.

I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, it sort of does. Like I mentioned before, Gibson isn't out anything because I wouldn't personally buy a Gibson. But then again, if for some strange reason I were to fall in love with this guitar, then I'm going to want the real thing. I'm pretty sure it would be a reissue because I'm certainly not taking out a second mortgage for a vintage original.
 

StrummerJoe

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more & more, the counterfeiting is getting into the mainstream marketplace...

But, that's because we allow it in other places, such as the Chibson. What I mean, is, that a good percentage of consumers have accepted it, as a low price alternative.

Now, you have sites like WISH, that advertise on social media, & offer stuff for a fraction of what it costs the legit mfgr's to produce.

For instance, I'd always see Marshall headphones on there, for around $30, whereas the Marshall™ branded headphones are around $100.

On facebook, I get ad after ad about some technology, or other good, that I could use in everyday life. Lately, I've seen a bunch of stereo equip. Like turntables selling new for less than $100. When I do a search on the turntable, I notice that one goes for $8,000-12,000.

Then I see another item, that is $69, but, the real deal doesn't sell for less than a few hundred dollars.

Hell, I just saw an ad for a 20 piece Dewalt tool set for $99

https://duoraface.com/products/dewa..._NgMrwy-_WttvRJba2SAJ4gYNT30qsjEYyufnUNuPaWw8

a633ddbc0011ffa33ddb5c01bad5361589814de2_1000x1000.jpg


yeah right...

either it's 100% scam, or fake goods (counterfit)
Then how long will the fake goods work or until they break and no longer work ? That will happen , it's just when it will happen ?


And there's the rub. Some unsuspecting dupe thinks they are getting a great deal, gets a less than subpar item that breaks, then trashes the REAL company undeservedly which in turn harms the originators.

I think Counter feiting is only theft because some politician/lawyer a long time ago made it that way so his brother could have a monopoly,
as a diterrent to others so and his family aquire and hoard much wealth.

That's an interesting take. :hmm:

The actual reason is because it takes time and effort - work - to develop and produce a new idea. They had to work out the kinks through much trial, effort, and almost always a lot of money invested. Why should anyone else be able to step in and copy the work and then reap the rewards of someone else's hard work and investment of time, energy, and money?

It's theft. And darn right people deserve to be protected from thieves.

:2c:
 
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Crikey

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I try to avoid anything MIC, especially counterfeit. It's impossible to avoid some things, but I'll be damned if I'm not trying my best! My wife & I always read the labels and have no problem putting something back and finding an alternative - even at a higher cost.

I don't care what anyone thinks of that. I have my reasons and I'm sticking to them.

YMMV :2c:
My Epi 59 reissue is Mic
Surisingly awesome
 

Dblgun

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Copies of Les Paus, Jr's, SG's, Firebirds etc. etc...have been made for years. The same can be said for Fenders and other makers. Many are very expensive and highly sought after. The problem for these manufactures was these guitars were superior to their offerings of the time. Navigator/Edwards, Burny, Greco, Tokai, Ibanez, Fernandes to mention only a few that built a better guitar than Gibson at a given time.

I have seen some Chinese made Les Paul copies some were good some were not. The only issue I see with the Chibson's are those that are produced with the Gibson and Les Paul logo and serial number and made in USA stamp. It does appear that often these are left off or a custom name or graphic supplied by the buyer is done. The only other question is if these guitars provide a value for the investment. Only the individual can make that decision. My experience is that if you buy cheap expect cheap but lets not pretend that guitar clones are something that China started recently.
 

StrummerJoe

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Yeah, it sort of does. Like I mentioned before, Gibson isn't out anything because I wouldn't personally buy a Gibson. But then again, if for some strange reason I were to fall in love with this guitar, then I'm going to want the real thing. I'm pretty sure it would be a reissue because I'm certainly not taking out a second mortgage for a vintage original.
That's not the point I was trying to make. Just take Gibson out of the equation - counterfeits exist in a multitude of products and brands.

The point is that knowingly purchasing a counterfeit item only encourages more of the same.

Does that make better sense? I hope I got my thought across better this time.

In the end, only you can decide what is right for you and how to spend your money. It's not mine or anyone else's biz in the grand scheme.

I can only tell you why I wouldn't....and I have now.

YMMV :cheers:
 

StrummerJoe

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Copies of Les Paus, Jr's, SG's, Firebirds etc. etc...have been made for years. The same can be said for Fenders and other makers. Many are very expensive and highly sought after. The problem for these manufactures was these guitars were superior to their offerings of the time. Navigator/Edwards, Burny, Greco, Tokai, Ibanez, Fernandes to mention only a few that built a better guitar than Gibson at a given time.

I have seen some Chinese made Les Paul copies some were good some were not. The only issue I see with the Chibson's are those that are produced with the Gibson and Les Paul logo and serial number and made in USA stamp. It does appear that often these are left off or a custom name or graphic supplied by the buyer is done. The only other question is if these guitars provide a value for the investment. Only the individual can make that decision. My experience is that if you buy cheap expect cheap but lets pretend that guitar clones are something that China started recently.
BINGO! And you made an important distinction between copies and fakes - Burny, Tokai, etc...had their own names on the headstock, not the originators and weren't passed off as the real thing. Though some unscrupulous folks did put aftermarket logos on them and hardware to try to pass them. The irony is they ruined the value of those MIJ "lawsuit" guitars. lol
 

pedecamp

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I have one that clearly proves otherwise. It's an acoustic, but still....

I'll post an update when my Chibson SG arrives.

EDIT: Did I understand you correctly? Were you saying that the makers on AliExpress DO or DON'T make good guitars?
The two I got were junk, I spent as much as I paid for them to get them playable. If I were right handed and wanted a cheap quality guitar I'd get Epiphone and Squier. :yesway:
 

PowerTube44

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The two I got were junk, I spent as much as I paid for them to get them playable. If I were right handed and wanted a cheap quality guitar I'd get Epiphone and Squier. :yesway:
I see. My experience with the incoming Chibson may be the same. If so, it'll make a pretty wall decoration and will be the last time I buy from there.

This acoustic isn't going anywhere, though.

:)
 

axe4me

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IMO, a Chibson should be avoided.

It's a cheap imitation of the real thing.

The resale value is bad since it's a cheap knock off of the real thing.

If your finances are not up to an overpriced original, get an Epiphone.

An Epiphone may surprise you in a good way.
 

DaDoc

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I think Counter feiting is only theft because some politician/lawyer a long time ago made it that way so his brother could have a monopoly,
as a diterrent to others so and his family aquire and hoard much wealth.

So how about this..

You invent and patent something that becomes hugely popular, and you're making a good living off it, getting rich even..Then along comes someone who illegally copies it without your permission, and proceeds to make poor reproductions of your invention, but at less than half the cost. So people are buying the copy rather than your invention, and you're not only losing money, but your invention is getting a bad reputation because the copies are of poor quality.

But even if the copies were of good quality, it still would be dishonest and illegal. And besides everything else, getting a patent on an invention is a long and expensive process! So the inventor has not only time and work, but also a good deal of money invested in their product.

Patent laws were made to protect honest people from ripped off by thieves. In this case politicos/lawyers have little to do with anything other than that the lawyers are there to make sure people have legal recourse in the event they get ripped off..Of course in the case of china, they just do what they want to and give the rest of the world the middle finger, and there's little or no recourse for the people they're ripping off! It's left up to the consumer to do the right thing and not support counterfeiting by buying their crap to "save a buck".

As far as "monopolies" and "hoarding wealth", what's wrong with that? You seem to think that's a bad thing. A free society makes it possible for anyone who's willing to put in the time and effort to "hoard wealth"..Or not! :shrug:

But if one doesn't like that, there are of course places one can live in where hoarding wealth is extremely hard, or even impossible. Like a lot of the countries where the copies are coming from! Personally, I like having the option to either hoard wealth if I choose to, or not..:cheers:
 
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anitoli

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I agree. No counterfeiting should exist.

But since it does, buyer beware.
This just makes the buying process more confusing and aggravating. Imagine if this applied to big ticket items. You're standing in a car lot looking at 5 Vette's trying to figure out which 3 are fake...................
It's bullshit. These guitars should not be in the marketplace.
 


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