Cab Construction Investigation

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by pedecamp, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the ply I used on the Orange cab is just "tonally" bad, it might be a relatively inexpensive experiment to replace it with MDF and use the ply baffle and back I already have (this would be reverse of my usual configuration).
     
  2. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    I can't picture what you're describing with the braces, there's no muddiness of the sound. I wish I could give you the cab to troubleshoot. At this point I'm thinking the ply I used is crap and is the source of the problem.
     
  3. Geeze

    Geeze Well-Known Member

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    Just thinking out my butt here for the did you try EVERYTHING to save the day. I'm thinking of stiffeners like on an acoustic's bracing on the top. Basically a corner to corner 1"x.75"x pine or whatever you have laying around in the woodworkers Jeeze I better save THAT as it may SAVE a future project!!!! stash pile of crap. Something to make the so so ply stiffer.

    Russ
     
  4. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    3/4" ply is pretty stiff already, what if I put a brace like an X pattern inside to tie each apposing wall with one another?
     
  5. Geeze

    Geeze Well-Known Member

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    Now you're getting all complicated! I was thinking the bracing on the flats might change something.

    Since you're at the sell it and take a loss anything is on the solution table. Do you have any batting or pillow stuffing you can put on the back wall? This can change the internal volume's interaction by absorbing some of the sound wave energy by converting it to heat.

    My point here is you don't know what is causing the issue - by changing one thing at a time you may cure the problem - or I could just be wasting your time by delaying the next cab build.

    The first cherry cab I built - beautiful but crappy sounding - I just refinished and one of things I changed was the gap between the angled grill baffle [like a 1960A] and the flat speaker baffle [slightly angled up]. I filled it in with expanding foam and stuck in an EVM12L [rear mount]. Now I really like the cab and I doubt it was the EV that made the difference. If that hadn't worked I was going to try it as an open back cab. The cherry was $300 and I wasn't going to lose my butt by selling a crappy sounding cab.

    Russ
     
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  6. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    I already tried putting padding inside, it didn't help. Also tried it with an open back, no good.
     
  7. Geeze

    Geeze Well-Known Member

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    As my guitar building buddy says - 'It's wood, you can always burn it and deny it ever existed!'

    Good luck on fixing or flipping it.

    Russ
     
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  8. Micky

    Micky Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    It's not the cabs. it's the speakers
     
  9. Gene Ballzz

    Gene Ballzz Well-Known Member

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    I see three main differences (besides the small size dfference) between the cabs:
    A) The way the back panel and baffle are fastened, especially no side cleats on the back of the Orange.
    B) Casters on one and not the other.
    C) And what I suspect to be the actual culprit: "The Orange is covered (dampened) by Tolex and the other is NOT!"
    Just My $.02 & Likely Worth A Whole Lot Less!
    Gene
     
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  10. Matthews Guitars

    Matthews Guitars Well-Known Member

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    If the cabinets vibrate, they're acting as a speaker themselves. Cabinet contributions to the overall output of the sound can be considerable.

    In the high end audio market, and also applicable to studio monitors, manufacturers go to great lengths to make their speaker cabinets as inert and dead as possible, with the idea being that ONLY the drivers generate sound. In that application, any sound generated by the cabinet degrades the speaker's accuracy.

    So, yes, cabinet construction has a lot to do with tone.
     
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  11. GIBSON67

    GIBSON67 Well-Known Member

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    Covered vs not covered, good point Gene!
     
  12. Gene Ballzz

    Gene Ballzz Well-Known Member

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    Funny story, I'll try not to make it too long!

    I have a really nice Stratocaster with some great pickups. When I first got it in nearly new, perfect condition, I purchased and put on one of these:

    https://www.guitarcenter.com/Scratch-Pad/Velvet-Guitar-Finish-Protector.gc

    Now I have few guitars in that condition and I paid an unusually high price (high for me anyway) for that guitar and wanted to keep as pristine as possible so everytime I did any work on the guitar, that "Scratch Pad" went right back on before much playing happened. Well after a couple years of trying to ascertain why that guitar just seemed a bit dull and otherwise lifeless, I ended up forgetting to put that rubbery/vinyl like pad back on, as I was cleaning/prepping for sale. That guitar became instantly alive and the pad went into the trash! The Strat is now one of my favorites!

    I guess my theory is that the pad simply, yet gently dampened some of the resonance of the guitar. Heck, I had even tried swapping the neck and multiple pickup sets, all to no avail! It simply stands to reason that if that vinyl sheet can affect the sound/resonance/liveliness of a guitar, aother sheet of vinyl, glued to a speaker cabinet "might" similarly affect said speaker cabinet!

    FWIW, the guitar is an '06, CP60's Strat, with "ABY" initialed, CS69 pups. I now lovingly call her "Spanky!" She's no longer so pristine, but she takes a good lickin' and keeps on tickin'!

    Just Sayin'
    Gene
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  13. soundboy57

    soundboy57 Well-Known Member

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    My two cents...I have built quite a few home audio, pro audio, and guitar cabs over the years, using a friends
    wood shop.
    Something as overlooked as the spacing of the drivers from each other in the cab, the location on the baffle, the location
    of the handles, size and location of any bracing/posts, etc, can all effect things.
    Like the way the sound reflects inside the cab, the phase cancellations between drivers, etc.

    If you did indeed copy the Orange cab "exactly" it should sound the same, with the same speakers.
    From you pictures, the front edge looks drastically different, for one. That alone can change how the sound reflects
    off the cab.
    The 1936 also uses a small post front to back, I don't see one on your cab. That would make a noticeable difference in sound, as well.
    Very nice work, though!
     
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  14. Micky

    Micky Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Jeez none of you Einsteins (except Anitoli) have noticed one cab has '75's and the other might have Greenbacks?
     
  15. SkyMonkey

    SkyMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I think @pedecamp indicated that a speaker swap had been tried to no avail.
     
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  16. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    Nope
     
  17. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    A) The side cleats are removed to get the baffle out, both cabs are constructed the same except the Orange cab has a pine frame around the front.
    B) The cab with casters actually sounds best (goes against all logic).
    C) Both cabs are painted, no tolex. :yesway:
     
  18. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    Nope, both cabs are painted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  19. pedecamp

    pedecamp Well-Known Member

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    The 75's and greenbacks sound great in the 1936 and terrible in the Orange. This is the problem.
     
  20. Seanxk

    Seanxk Well-Known Member

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    Well it's not an A/B then.

    Ok, again, does the 1936 sound better or worse if you remove the casters?.
     

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