Building a oversized 1 x 12 or a ISO Cab ?

Discussion in 'Cabinets & Speakers' started by ibmorjamn, Apr 13, 2021.

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ISO cab or speaker cab

  1. ISO cab

    25.0%
  2. Speaker cab

    50.0%
  3. Something else

    25.0%
  1. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    So , I have been searching for info on DIY ISO cab and looking at the one Randall makes. I didn’t realize until looking at the posts they are boxy sounding if you make it square so the sound wave theory makes things complicated. I don’t want a giant box. I was looking at about the size of my 2 x 12 cab but it has to be about 18 x 18 to allow for the insulation.
    I have 3/4 birch left over from another project.
    I am thinking I might just build a 1 x 12 oversized cab.
     
  2. Torren61

    Torren61 Active Member

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    I have a Rivera "Silent Sister". It's pretty cool. I put a Celestion Alnico Gold in it. It has two gooseneck mic mounts, two separate XLR outs and two 1/4" input jacks. It a very sturdy build. It's far from silent though it does quiet things down considerably. I keep it in a closet and surrounded by acoustic foam and that does a pretty good job when I crank a 50 watt head into it. I take the XLR outs and run that into my audio input into my computer and I can get some good sounds. The cab is larger than a standard 2X12 cab and it has a latch for the lid that really seals the cab well.

    Good luck with your project!
     
  3. Kinkless Tetrode

    Kinkless Tetrode Well-Known Member

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    To avoid boxyness you need a cab large enough to off set the speaker slightly from the center -either off slightly to the side or off slightly up and down, or both.

    The problem I find with OS 1x12s is that once you get so big you might as well build a 2x12. For example, the great sounding THD 2x12 is only 26.5-inches wide by 18-inches tall.

    An approximately 25-inch by 15-inch 1x12 will allow a speaker off set, and have enough internal volume to allow the speaker to breath, with out being so large that it might as well be a 2x12 or a 4x10.
     
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  4. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    I picked up a large flight case (used) that can house 2- 1x12 cab's. I modified it, so I can clamp speaker & mic cables through drilled holes, where the cabinet seals shut.

    If you don't want "boxy" you're going to have to have some sort of bulky box. The problem w/ boxiness comes from having an undersized speaker enclosure &/or, having the rear/side walls from the iso enclosure too close to the mic, that the ratio of reflection is too strong, so you get the sound of the box reflection.

    If you have the speaker box already boxy, then you'll have a terrible time, inside the iso, because, if you add more boxiness, you are multiplying the problem...

    Another consideration is, having too much sound absorption, will suck the life out of the enclosure. This will make the mic sound cold & lacking life. Sure, you can add reverb, etc., but, it's nice to have some sense of liveliness coming through the mic.

    That's where it takes work, getting something good to work w/.

    Many people do not want to put in the time/effort... or money...

    If you have a lot of money, you have a lot of options. If not, it takes work & effort. You'll still have to spend some money. You'll need a good mic, some sound absorption material & some hard materials, as well as the stuff to pull it all together.

    It's hard to come up w/ specifics. What are you running now?

    How loud are you?

    How quiet do you need it to be?
     
  5. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    2 x 12 and recently this week a 4 x 12 but it’s to big for the room. I don’t play loud but the other occupant can here through the door and wall . I don’t crank crank it even half but I am about to put the KLD JCM 25 together with 6L6’s. 25w 2204 style build. I have to assume that it will be louder by the nature than the 15w LBX.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  6. metromutt

    metromutt Well-Known Member

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    Some of the boom/boxyness can come from the mic diaphragm, if there isn't enough space in the area in front of the speaker for sound pressure/air movement the mic struggles and adds more sound problems.

    I've had a few attempts over the years with different sizes and my best came from a small 1x12 cab with an old pulsonic G12S celestion, housed at one end in a long 7ft x 3ft high x 1ft deep cabinet! sounds insane but in my music room it also doubled up as a shelf that had my amps and monitors on. I had various blocks and foam stuck on inside to deflect the sound waves. It had a mic on the speaker and another near the far end then I blended the mix with a simple mic pre-amp then the all important graphic to mix to your taste.

    After reading about EMT plate machines I had a mad professor moment and hung by wire, a 2ft x4ft sheet of brass, angled so the sound didn't bounce back to the speaker, then added a further mic straight on to the plate about half inch away. It wasn't an obvious reverb sound like you'd get from say a pedal but it did ad a more spacious zingy feel and mixed with the other two mics, gave a big full sound.

    Handy thing to know before you box your speaker in, play your amp through the speaker your going to use at volume, so you can see at what volume on the amp the speaker cone moves comfortably. The reason why I mention it is once you've got things set up and playing along at a comfortable volume, it's easy to forget and carry on cranking the volume until the speaker blows. I knackered a few speakers building various iso boxes!

    Have fun.
     
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  7. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    Well I have a 2 x 12 I almost prefer a 2 x 10 for the room size. I have a 65w cream back and no cab for it . I want to build something for it. I like to record but the small room , small house is difficult . I did see a angle speaker with labyrinth design but the ratio and overall dimension are unknown.
     
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  8. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    ok, so the main thing is to be polite to the Mrs... :)...

    is the room dedicated to the guitar/music?

    If so, I'd say you need to double isolate. Is there a closet in the room?

    The closet can get semi soundproofed. You then, can put some stuff to knock down cabinet noise & also throw up some sound absorbent in the room & pad the inside of the door.

    wood floors, or cement?

    There's a lot of things to consider.

    Too bad you don't still have that wall that Swede gave you...
     
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  9. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    Yes , that wall is long gone . It was actually for t.v. Prop wasn’t it ? Anyway the floor is wood. There is a closet , I use the room for music but it is not supposed to be for music.
    Right now the closet is full of stuff . I have 2 storage rentals and not enough room.
     
  10. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    I kind of settled on a iso cab with a dimension of 18 x 18 x 24 or 18 x 18 x 30 . In those dimensions how far should the speaker be from the end on the mic side ?
     
  11. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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  12. metromutt

    metromutt Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think that's over engineered for what your trying to achieve. There are a lot of bass traps in that design, which might help but cost wise and time, I'd start off with a simple box and try that and see what it sound is like. You can always add to it if you want to try some bass traps etc... but you might just like the basic 1x12 in a box. With regards to the speaker, imo you need the lions share of the space in front of the speaker to reduce the SP level where the mic will sit.

    Found this link to an idea when I opened yours...
    https://formyx.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/formyx-f12-isolation-cabinet/
     
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  13. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    I kept an eye out on craig's list.

    I ended up finding a flight case, that is some 46" x 29" x 22" for $60

    It came w/ 2" thick, dense foam on all inside surfaces. I can fit 2- 1912 cab's in & 2 mic's/stands, etc. It pretty much worked as-is, didn't have to do much any modifications, except to drill holes for cables. I drilled holes through, the sealing hardware, a little smaller than the cable size, so, when I lock the box, it clamps down on the cables for a more air tight seal.

    This sort of thing, should fit your 2x12 cab in it, if it's comparable to the pair of 1912 cab's...

    just an example:

    [​IMG]


    you can find ad's of something like this. You just need to make sure, that you have ample room to house a guitar cabinet, whether it's the 212 you have, or, if you cobble a 112 together, plus some room for mic's & stands & a little room for air, so you have space between the speaker grill & the reflection walls, so you get little phasing issues.

    I know this can be hit or miss, but, I've seen people giving away cases like this, because they can't get rid of them fast enough, whether they are moving & simply leaving bulky stuff behind, that they have no use for, or whatever. I also see people selling them cheap, but I also see people trying to sell their beat up case for like new prices.

    This is the easy route...

    In that link you sent, there is an idea from Mojotone:

    [​IMG]

    I had thought about doing something like that w/ a 112 cab.

    In your case, the idea would be, to make a copy of your 2x12, but...

    Only make the back & side panels. Make them sealed & the front wide-open. Then, instead of putting a speaker jack, put a mic jack. wire a cable to attach a mic inside. Then foam the inside. Make sure to put some sort of gasket on the face of your iso cab.

    Then, what I'd use, is those cargo straps, that have a ratchet type wench design...

    Get a small boomstand (think kickdrum) & mic your cab, strap it together & now your cab is an iso box...

    There's a lot of ways you can go, you just have to put your intuitive mind to work & engineer something.

    That wall Swede gave you was a sound absorption wall, that he pulled out of a studio...
     
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  14. RLW59

    RLW59 Well-Known Member

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    Use your nice 3/4" birch ply for a regular speaker cab.

    MDF or particle board are better materials for an iso cab. Their non-resonant deadness will reduce sound transmission to the outside.

    Plus, if you do a double box with labyrinth baffles you'll be using a lot of wood. So not only will it work better, it'll be much less expensive to build.
     
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  15. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of your flight case , take a look at Box Of Doom on FB.
     
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  16. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    did a search & found their site...

    https://www.theboxofdoom.com
     
  17. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    Wow , I would like get one of those Jack plates.
     
  18. ibmorjamn

    ibmorjamn Well-Known Member

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    Wait a minute , Box of Doom , Dogs of Doom?
     
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  19. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    yeah, I feel infringed... :nutkick:
     
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  20. Dogs of Doom

    Dogs of Doom Moderator Staff Member

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    seriously, I'm just one of those guys looking for frugal solutions & ways to expand my ingenuity.

    It seems people are always looking to do things, but, w/ limited funds. If you have enough money to throw at stuff like this, the options are unlimited.

    If not, you are limited w/ compromises. The more limited your funds, the more compromise you're faced w/.

    So, you are tasked w/ finding solutions to get the most bang for your buck.

    The thing about sound proofing, is that you are trying to stop vibrations. 2 things stop that.

    Material density & leak proof air seal.

    Think of cushions to absorb vibration. Waves are sounds & waves are vibrations. When you think of air leak, also think about light leak or liquid leak. You should have a water/air proof barrier. If the substance is solid (not transparent) then light also should not leak.

    If you have hard surfaces, hard surfaces should be mixed w/ soft surfaces & also air space inbetween to make a void between barriers. Mixing densities (soft/hard/thick/thin/air) also helps w/ different frequencies.

    Say 1 hard surface when hit w/ sound pressure waves/vibration, will take on a certain frequency & radiate it. Having a different density material next to it, will knock that frequency down. Then having air space, then another density (that will block a different frequency) w/ another dampening pad, well, hopefully you get the idea...

    Now, to do this properly, you'd have to get a bloated box on steroids.

    So, you compromise.

    But, the formula is there & so use it, although in a somewhat restricted manor.

    When I used to work in acounstic/soundproofing, we had a material, that had a semi-dense rubber foam, w/ a rubber solid, then a little more rubber foam on the other side.

    1" rubber foam semi-dense
    1/8" rubber strip (think like an inner tube)
    ½" rubber foam dense

    This stopped sound well. Expensive, but effective in small spaces.

    example:
    [​IMG]

    You could line a box w/ that, as air tight as possible & it would make for a quiet small box. But, it's expensive. To do a small box could cost you $500 for just the foam...

    Know that there's a difference between acoustic treatment & soundproofing...

    Usually you want both, but, sometimes one is more important than the other.

    If soundproof is more important, make sure you're looking at the right solutions. It knocking down reflections & getting better acoustics is the goal, there's a lot of that available, but be warned, much of it is sold as "soundproofing", when it's not...

    The 1st couple x's I soundproofed a garage for band practice, I went & scoured used carpet padding at the local carpet stores. We'd pick out the clean stuff & load a truck up. Go to the next store & load up again.

    Then, we stuffed the walls w/ it & drywalled. Then, after we drywalled, we drywalled again.

    If we would have been smart, we would have put more carpet padding up on the wall, then drywalled the 2nd wall over that.

    But, this was working as a kid to quiet down the jam room.

    Of course, now, I have tons of experience doing stuff & know what to do & what's available, so I could do a lot better w/ the same, or more available materials...

    One thing you could do, is, you know those "storm windows", where they get a piece of plexiglass & frame around it, & you install it inside the window sill & it insulates the inside from extreme weather?

    You can do that on the room where you jam. Just install the panel when you jam & it'll make the door a better sound barrier.

    Like I said, there's a lot you can do. You can quiet the source (cabinet), but you can also quiet the room to the outside house.

    Do both & the rest of the house is better off.
     

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