Bought a Marshall 1960 Lead Slant for $50 and need some guidance

[EtypeJag]

Please don’t berate me for my ignorance with Marshall cabs. I have never owned any Marshall products, as I prefer the Fender tone and have multiple Fender tube and SS amps and cabs.

This weekend, I purchased a 1966 Fender Dual Showman D130 1x15 cabinet for $50 and decided to also snag a Marshall 1960 Lead Slant cabinet for $50. I know a lot about Fender cabs, but nothing about Marshall cabs. So here it goes. I wanted to date the cabinet. It has a 2.75 inch metal disk screwed into the back that has circular that says “Marshall”, “Made in England by Jim Marshall Products LTD” around the outer edge of the disk, and “1960 Lead 100W 16 (ohms symbol)” in a circle in the center part of the disk, and finally the numbers “1957” stamped into the metal. That didn’t get me anywhere on the internet, so opened the cabinet to date it off the speakers. It has four of these in the picture.





They are, as you can see 20watt Greenbacks. They are the 55Hz model with T1511 stamped in the speaker metal with a date code of 15GA that would seem to indicate that they were made on July 15, 1956 (weird). However, the sticker would indicate that they were made between about 1966 and 1971 (i.e., with the “Celestion Ltd Thames Ditton Surrey’ text at the bottom of the label). Additionally, the speaker cone also has the number sequence of “22 102 014” if that helps.

Can anyone help with the dating? Or is it old speakers in a newer cab?

If I decide to restore it, rather than trade it off, there is another bit of weirdness. The cab was paint twice, white then black. But original tolex was tan or fawn, as you can see in the picture. Any ideas where I can find fawn tolex and does it help date the cab?



Lastly, it has striped fabric rather than grill cloth. What would the appropriate grill cloth for the tan tolex?

 

[Dogs of Doom]

to the forum...

need more pictures, especially of the outside of the cab. front/back, handles, etc...

You won't be able to find authentic fawn, but there's some tan ones around that can be close, if you aren't matching it up to a head...

I'm no expert, but, fawn was from mid '70s to early '80s, IIRC.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

15GA date code translates to July 1968 which fits the type. January 66 to April 1971 is the "pre rola" Celestion label period, and the 20 watt Greenbacks date in this range. Even the date stamp position is right (it sometimes was stamped on the basket rim thru mid 1968) so based on speakers alone you have basically hit the jackpot.

The speakers alone, will bring....let's just say 350 dollars each would be a good selling price and you won't have to wait long to get that much for them. You could go higher and get it if you are patient. Assuming those speakers are in original condition and not reconed.

Reconed Greenbacks are worth what it costs to buy a reissue Greenback. There's no reason why someone should pay more than that for a recone.

The speakers are in phenomenal condition. The green magnet cover shown is its original shade of green and hasn't browned out as most have due to age and environmental conditions. The speaker cone (as seen from the back) is also its original black shade, unfaded, and I don't see any dust or dirt accumulation. VERY clean, very unusual.

Could the speakers be newer fakes? If so the effort gone to in order to fake them was considerable. I'm not feeling "fake" here, I'm feeling "Unusually clean but authentic, fine examples!".

Fawn doesn't match the time period of the speakers. I'm thinking you've got a newer, late 70s cabinet with great older speakers in it.

Please post more pics.

The only reason you prefer the Fender tone is because you haven't yet had the pleasure of a proper Marshall setup. You've now got the cabinet side of the equation well covered.

It would be worth trying to strip the paint over the fawn tolex, without damaging the tolex. While success may not be particularly likely, it can't hurt to try. If successful, it increases the value of the cabinet. All factory custom tolex covered Marshall cabinets are worth more than their standard black covered brothers.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Welcome to the forum.

Wow, it sounds like you found a real gem of a cabinet.

As requested earlier, more pictures please.

 

[Chris-in-LA]

That back cover is MDF. That can’t be vintage correct, can it?

 

[BygoneTones]

Yeah 15GA is 15th July 1968. They weren't making greenbacks in 1956.

Celestion Date Codes, Stamps & Dating Speakers - Bygone Tones

How to date Celestion speakers: simply find the pair of letters within the date code, & use the Celestion date codes chart on this page to decipher them.

www.bygonetones.com

It's a late 70's cab with a quad of pre-rolas hiding inside, original pulsonic cones. Good score if they are still in good working condition. They are 25w speakers, not 20w. Around that time Celestion would put little square gold '25' stickers over the '20' on the label, but 9/10 times they have fallen off by now. You can see the sticker residue on the label where they have been.

You can still buy the fawn tolex last time I looked. However the original grill material on those fawn cabs was actually a two tone brown weave. You can't buy that stuff anymore, just get the standard black Marshall grill it will look the closest.

 

[Fernieite]

Wow man, what an amazing deal!

Now that you have what you need, how about keeping your eyes open next weekend for the rest of us?

Btw, another Welcome to the forum to you.

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

Fender tube amps sound fine through Marshall 4x12 cabs, impedance mismatch and all. I've done it.

 

[fitz288]

and decided to also snag a Marshall 1960 Lead Slant cabinet for $50.

$50?
SMH
Score of a lifetime...

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

^^^^^^
Indeed !

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I'd absolutely feel guilty about taking that deal. I'd be forced by my conscience to offer a more real world price, but one I could afford.
I've seen enough evidence that karma is real that I'd have to do that.

 

[EtypeJag]

Thank you so much for the assistance.

Keep in mind that this cab is priceless to me, because it is worth more than $50. I showed my wife pictures of the ugly cab and said "I think we are going adopt this junkyard dog. It needs a good home". To which the wife responded, "Do you really need another?" and a "You've got to be kidding" at the pick up. I figure that getting lucky on this one will get me silence from the wife for the next few purchases.

I was not intending to buy a Marshall cab. It was cheap and from the same seller as the Fender cab. I bought them sight unseen (only looking at a couple of pictures) before I went to pick both of them up. The seller didn’t even know if the Marshall had speakers. I was buying it as a box to re-tolex and install a set of EVM 12S speakers that I have setting on a shelf unused.

Anyway, you guys are amazingly knowledgeable. It makes sense now. My confusion was from the fact that the cab and the speakers are a chronological mismatch as you guys figured out.

Matthews Guitars and Bygone Tones hit it bang on. The cabinet is a 1960 Custom Fawn Tolex Cabinet that was made around 1977-1978. The components match up in the Marshall Speaker Cabinet Database, i.e., the circular metal plate had “1960”, a serial number “1957” that matches to late ’77 to early ’78 (when the Fawn Tolex option was available), the cab is plywood, the back is particleboard, the Marshall logo is eleven inches, and the handles and caster cups are plastic with the Marshall logo. All correct. The Pre-Rola labels on the speakers all have the glue residue from the 25 ohm correction to the label, as spotted by Bygone Tones. They must have fallen off years ago.

As you can see from the pictures, the cabinet has been to the wars. The tolex is unsalvageable. The black paint over the white paint has made the Fawn tolex underneath brittle and cracked. The grill cloth is just striped cloth. The plastic pieces are all broken. The corner caps are missing. The rollers are missing, and it appears that someone just dragged it around, because the tolex is completely scrapped away on the bottom.





This begs the question of where the speakers came from? They are almost 55 years old and look unused (one is missing the green cap). How did they end up in this beaten-up cab, then apparently not used? Must be a heck of a story that I will never know.

Anyway, I pre-tested all the speakers. They checked out. I checked the wiring. They have terrible soldering (i.e., not factory), but good enough for testing. I will re-wire it later. The overall resistance at the jack was within tolerance. Thus, I jacked in 15 watts of “tubey goodness” from my practice amp (2-EL84s power/3-12AX7s preamp). 15 watts is not exactly pushing the cab and impedance was mismatched (8 ohms out to a 16 ohm cab). Nonetheless, as Fernieite asserted, it was amazing. I will concede that this disturbingly ugly cab is the best that I have every used. I am a Marshall cab convert.

Unfortunately, I now think that I need a tatty Marshall head from the same late 70s era to recover in Fawn Tolex to go with it. Any suggestions? I know nothing about Marshall heads.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

@EtypeJag

@Matthews Guitars , @BygoneTones & @Kinkless Tetrode are all spot on! It appears that even the speaker baffle is MDF? That seems odd to me? I'm suspecting either a late '70s/early '80s cab or possibly a home made clone? I also agree with @Matthews Guitars about the "Karma" thing, and you oughta at least throw the seller an extra $50, just given the speakers alone! My '72, all greenback loaded 1960B is the best sounding cabinet for almost any amp I throw at it!
And Again, To The Forum!
Gene

 

[EtypeJag]

Nope, no bad karma on this. The seller was an online auction house. It was open to anyone in the world that wanted to bid on the cabs. Including you guys. I bid a great deal more than my winning bids. But no one bid against me beyond the $50 mark. I happened to be traveling to the town that the auction house was in for a car show last Friday to be able to pick them up. Ergo, my "sight unseen" comment except for a few pictures.

 

[EtypeJag]

I'd absolutely feel guilty about taking that deal. I'd be forced by my conscience to offer a more real world price, but one I could afford.
I've seen enough evidence that karma is real that I'd have to do that.

The seller was an online auction house, so you or anyone with an internet connection that wanted to bid on the cabs could have done so. I bid a great deal more than my winning bids, but no one bid against me beyond the $50 mark. I happened to be traveling to the town that the auction house was in for a car show last Friday to be able to pick them up. So, no bad karma or guilt. I just made a bid in an open, fair auction and won.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

The baffle is plywood. The cabinet itself is normal for a well used, and slightly altered, late 70s 1960A. (incidentally, all 1960 cabinets are plywood construction.)

Given the unsalvageable state of the tolex, my course of action would be to strip and recover it and rebuild it to its original specifications, and do it in any originally available custom tolex color. (Red, purple, orange, green, white, or of course, black.) New handles, casters and cups, corners, trays, grill cloth, and logos are all readily available. But there is no correct fawn tolex.

Ironically, that's just because nobody has asked Kayline Processing to run off a batch. It's the same elephant hide pattern and the color of fawn is the same as that of brown rough texture. All they'd have to do is run a roll of brown with the elephant hide dies.

Whoever would do that would have a private stash of the only correct fawn tolex and could make a nice profit by selling it by the yard.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

@Matthews Guitars
Apparently @EtypeJag was entering post #12 as I was typing. Those pics indeed confirm the plywood baffle! Funny though, the first two pics in post #1 sure look like MDF to me! I guess maybe the tiny speckles that make it look like MDF are simply tiny bits of overspray from some painting that was obviously done. And yeah that cabinet deserves some nice upgraded, direct fit metal handles from @Scumback Speakers along with a re-tolex and grill cloth of choice. The cabinet is not all that special (in a vintage sense) but those speakers sure are! What a great score! A lifetime keeper for sure!

And FWIW, that grill cloth kinda looks familiar? I did find a pic or two of the band "Stryper" with some fawn colored cabinets. Hmmm…..

Or Well,
Gene